Official Derailed thread... Wait, what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Zaius Ex, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Hollister

    Hollister Fun-Taker Berserker

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    that whole process doesnt seem very practical at all.

    just seems like a bunch of dick measuring.
     
  2. Moro Ibex

    Moro Ibex Moderator Hirdman

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    Practical? oh hellllll no. the reason though is the strength of the block itself. That is a forged billet of aluminium. My boss (he built a 10 second El Camino) figures it is/was for a GT2/GT1 car or a top fuel dragster. A cast block is fine for a chevy 350. 800 hp over 24 hours or 8000 for 3,2 seconds demand this kind of block and machining. Not as much dick waving in this as you would think. I am sure the company strokes themselves over it but enough money will buy that mill.
     
  3. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    If I ever got to choose I'd always rather have a milled block over cast parts. Simple mechanics.

    And of course it is more expensive. But what can you do? Nature tends to be like that - almost always doing things better takes more time. We just have to draw the cap for total cost somewhere but if we can afford it, why the hell not? If we're going to be spending that amount of money there's absolutely no point to produce some cheaper shit when something better can be done.
     
  4. Hollister

    Hollister Fun-Taker Berserker

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    Would be better money wise to have a cast block and use sleeves, but if money is nothing then it doesn't matter.
     
  5. Moro Ibex

    Moro Ibex Moderator Hirdman

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    You can sleeve a cylinder but as far as i know that is more for a fucked up cylinder, not a boosting of HP. (take this with a grain of salt) When you want more horse power you bore and hone a cylinder making it larger for displacement. You can also increase the stroke length (bored and stroked) to increase the compression inside the motor. This is where how the block is made comes in. A cast block, no mater how bad ass a person can pour metal a casting will always have imperfection. Most cast blocks these days have very very very small imperfections and are perfectly good engines. The problems begin to happen around 400 hp. There is so much energy in the engine (potential and kinetic) that even microscopic imperfections can cause an engine to grenade itself. A forged block (that is a forged billet of aluminium in the vid) has been beaten and reheated and beaten and reheated and...and...yeah. The forging closes (molecular level) imperfections and aligns the crystalline structure of the aluminium. Now you take that and put in in a mill like that video and cut the engine out of that billet. That engine is at a molecular level "perfect" (trillions of atoms...yeah yeah) so it can withstand vastly superior levels of energy. That block is machined to such fine tolerances gravity and heat distort the block more then anything else.
     
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  6. Skwisgaar

    Skwisgaar XO Thrall

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    Pretty much any engine built nowadays has sleeves for the cylinders that are separate from the actual crankcase material, no matter what process was used to create the block. At that level of racing a lot of engines actually use nikasil or other chrome-like materials to coat the cylinder bores for better heat transfer and lower coefficient of friction.
     
  7. Moro Ibex

    Moro Ibex Moderator Hirdman

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    Skwi sounds like he knows more then me about this. I just know general stuff and next to nothing race related other then some basics (class restrictions, old F1 car stuff...I mean the car had a fan in it to hold it down).
     
  8. Hollister

    Hollister Fun-Taker Berserker

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    Before boring out the cylinder you normally get the block magnetic particle inspected so imperfections will be found. This is normally on used blocks for micro fractures and such. You also do that so you know how much you can bore before hitting the water jacket. Most of my engine knowledge is 70's to 80's era stuff. All this new stuff is just so expensive now.
     
  9. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

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    I only know the basics of engines. I know some general components and what they do... but it all boils down to creating contained explosions to drive a mechanical shaft, which through clever gearing, drives another mechanical shaft which puts power to the road via the wheels.

    AKA It's fucking magic to anyone from the 16th century
     
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  10. Damion Sparhawk

    Damion Sparhawk The Missing Link Viking

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    and I'll bring these beauties.
     
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  11. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    I've been revisiting Kalevala legends with "Ancient Aliens" approach.

    Ilmarinen is a great engineer (smith) who wants a bride. But the bride doesn't come cheap, he has to manufacture something "worthy".

    He creates a bow (weapon) that never misses - but there's a flaw in it. It kills someone every day (it goes rogue?)

    No good. So he decides to think bigger and creates a warship that requires no crew, iirc. no wind and so. But again there's a problem with it - it goes to war on it's own!

    Eventually he creates a device into which you can insert anything and it creates vast amounts of whatever was inserted. This earns him the bride.

    But the bride dies and in his grief he creates a new bride of gold. But the golden bride is "cold to touch" (but spoken of as if it's a living thing). So he is creeped by it and offers it to Väinämöinen (the wisest of the bunch) who in horror insists he immediately throw it back to the furnace from which it came and holds a massive speech addressing everyone against the dangers of creating such things.

    They all realize that the Sampo device was way too valuable to end up with the people Ilmarinen gave it to, the "evil people ruled by a witch" (a witch that can change shape and is wise and powerful and has many followers in her distant domain).

    Unfortunately Väinämöinen doesn't know how to create a ship that can reach the place but he knows there's a gigantic being (Vipunen - 'lever one' or 'levered one') slumbering some distance away, covered by moss and dirt. He wakes the being but the being "eats" him, inside the being Väinämöinen manages to sabotage it and threatens to destroy the being from inside unless it gives him instructions for building the kind of ship he needs to build.

    Then he proceeds to build the ship by 'singing' the 'song' given by the Vipunen being and the ship becomes built without labor.

    Stuff like that. It almost sounds like some scifi epic.
     
  12. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    [​IMG]


    Your weapons are really, really beautiful.
     
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  13. Skwisgaar

    Skwisgaar XO Thrall

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    Most of my knowledge comes from the motorcycle world but it's still pretty applicable to cars.

    Before most automotive companies started using aluminum blocks, motorcycles (especially air-cooled) were using aluminum cylinders with press-fit cast-iron sleeves. The iron bores resisted wear and didn't warp from heat, and the aluminum cylinders were lighter and dissipated heat transferred from the sleeves more efficiently than older iron cylinders. Even on iron block car engines, the block would be manufactured without cylinder sleeves to allow for more room while cutting the water cooling passageways and then iron sleeves with different material properties would be pressed in.

    Whenever we replace sleeves on motorcycle cylinders, the old iron sleeve basically has to be cut out with a boring bar to very specific measurements, then we freeze the new sleeve overnight and heat the cylinder in an oven at 450 degrees (F) before pressing the sleeve in. Once it cools, the fitment is so tight that the sleeve can't shift up or down or twist in the cylinder. On two-stroke cylinders with ports cut in the sides of the cylinders everything has to be measured and lined up VERY carefully to make sure the openings on the cylinder match the openings on the sleeve. Once two-stroke sleeves are pressed in we typically drill the top and set pins in place to make double sure the sleeve can't rotate in the cylinder and block the transfer ports.
     
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  14. Skwisgaar

    Skwisgaar XO Thrall

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    For example, here's a cylinder bank from a Suzuki GSX 750.

    [​IMG]

    See how the metal around the tops of the cylinders bores is a different color from the rest of the cylinder bank? That shows the difference between the iron sleeve and the aluminum. Each of those sleeves has a flange at the top that is counter-sunk into the cylinder bank to set the depth then the whole top deck is milled to the same height for a smooth flat seating surface for the head gasket.
     
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  15. Skwisgaar

    Skwisgaar XO Thrall

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  16. Hollister

    Hollister Fun-Taker Berserker

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    Reminded me a bit of the primitive technology channel this guy has going. Doesnt talk but shows how it was done back then.

     
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  17. Lardaltef

    Lardaltef Well Liked Berserker

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  18. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    [​IMG]
    Her Majesty visits Game of Thrones set but is unable to sit on the throne: Her Majesty is not allowed to sit on a foreign throne!


    Sport canal in Iran
     
  19. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    "Can't you see I'm working hard?"

    "...it's... COMPILING!"

    But I found this:
     
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  20. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    It's Thursday, all life results in death. Time for some nihilist memes:

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2016
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