One airframe does make logistics easier. But why was I thinking they wanted some of the B version? I don't think anyone is getting any C variants because no one needs them (outside the U.S.). At least I don't think anyone else will operate the C version (the carrier non vtol one).
F-35A is the only official export type. Israel obviously always has their own subtype I but they're Israel.
The Canadians were going to have their own. It was an A variant with a drogue shoot and refueling probe instead of whatever the A uses for in-flight refueling. I think a boom. Norway will be the first country to use the drogue chute (the A could have had it all along. Just no one wanted it) And a few countries are getting the VTOL/STOVL variant (B). Singapore, South Korea (navy), Italy, UK, and Japan.
According to SVT sources the Saab Gripen ended up on third position in the bid, with only three candidates fulfilling the needs set forth by the FAF. The second place went to the combined Super Hornet and Growler deal of 48 Super Hornets and 16 Growlers that would have produced 4 squadrons of 12 Super Hornets supported by 4 Growlers.
So the Rafale and Typhoon didn't even make the cut? Dassault and Eurofighter must not have really wanted it. Or because both companies are involved with 2 different 6th generation aircraft and maybe be phasing out production of the Rafale and Typhoon (not stopping support)..
Yea, a fighter that's almost as old as the F-18 and already half-way out the door is not going to be attractive for the service period FAF is looking for which is iirc. ~30 years from now with the necessity for the fighter to be still fully supplied and developed at that point. Ending up as one of the backwater users of some abandonware project is not enticing. I know Rafale was campaigned very heavily and they had a big budget for sending stuff to various Finnish air shows etc. Eurofighter on the other hand is from the get go more optimized for the UK and their operating environment - it excels as long range interceptor over the vast seas but that's not at all what we're looking for. Oh and that too is already kinda out the door already.
May also be part of why the Gripen was in third. Because Sweden is involved with one of those 6th gen programs. I think the U.K. one. So really it was between the F-18 and F-35 the entire time. F-18 will be around awhile. F-35 as it is is not what the navy wanted. (F-35C.)
Gripen was started only a couple years after F-18. Swedish social democrats argued then that the Viggen which was widely regarded as one of the best fighters in the world of it's era and possibly at a time the very best when it came out was "undue waste of money in an effort to be the best, we don't need the best but we need something that is cost effective and has an emphasis on being cheap". So while every other fighter program - Russia, China, India etc. included - has a trend of increasing the costs of their fighters while pushing performance ahead the Swedish Gripen has been optimized as an economic alternative. It's main markets have been Sweden, Brazil and Thailand. Sweden to support their own domestic industry, Brazil because they wanted something cheap and because they liked the fact that it wasn't an American one, also Brazil is not a likely candidate to have to fight an aerial war any time soon. Thailand immediately rushed to the Chinese to arrange joint training where they literally acted as OPFOR for the Chinese pilots to train them the best practices to get better at fighting against Gripen and similar Western fighters. No kidding. Simply put, it's a 'light economy fighter' option and if your opponent is Russia you're not going to try to compete against them in terms of economy and attrition. FAF listed that Russia can only be countered by "significant superior performance and capability gap" which will produce a survival rate that is sufficient to allow enough attrition to be caused to the attackers that the FAF can both help blunt out the initial shock of the strategic first strike and in the coming weeks and potentially months cause such attrition that the Russian Air Forces will have to potentially abort the entire air campaign leaving their army and navy without air support.
And I forgot to mention that Jaas Gripen is not a fully finished plane. Sweden was anxious to share in the development costs of it as despite aiming to produce a cheap fighter they are finding that there's no shortcut to happiness - trying to build a modern fighter costs a shit ton of cash and resources no matter how you approach it and Sweden is a small country. Wikipedia It was started in the 80's and it's a constant struggle with all the new models that are still mostly the same 80's plane but with some upgrades - but ultimately the same limitations such as being based off from 80's conceptual design and the low cost design philosophy. And given that November 2021 was the first deliveries of the latest type E it is safe to assume that it's not even close to having the development work on it finished. It's a big project carried on narrow shoulders. Meanwhile both Super Hornet and F-35 are battle proven designs with very vast support. F-35 had some real struggles like most newly introduced fighters but huge leaps have been taken by the international F-35 consortium to reduce costs, improve reliability and so on. A Finnish Air Forces' general compared the F-35 and Jaas Gripen as "we need an air force, we cannot afford a mere flight club"
Sweden may be small, but they are pretty damn rich (the government. Not neccessarily the general population). They are ranked 22nd in GDP. I think that was in 2017 though.
Yup, they have twice the population and twice the GDP of Finland which sits at #44. Though Sweden's military budget is a minimal fraction at 1.1% of GDP. With Finland having 2.15% GDP spent to military the respective military budgets are roughly equal but Sweden has no army as it effectively disbanded it's army before 2014 with some mighty slogans about having transcended the primordial ways of waging wars over territory etc. and dedicating their armed forces for international peacekeeping - and even resurgence of perceived threat from Russia has not encouraged them to reimplement their army.
I hear France really wanted Greece to get some Rafales but Greece too actually wants the F-35A. So as Turkey has been having pressure on Greece France moved a carrier to support Greece and if I am reading this correctly they gave some Rafales to Greece free of charge. Even then they are only getting a small number of them. One of the follies of assessing the usefulness of modern fighters is that a lot of people end up looking at the dogfighting capabilities of the fighters in an era where dogfighting is just as likely and important of a deal as knife fighting technique is for a soldier. While it eventually occurs you do not win wars by having a focus on having the best knife fighters in the world - instead you would probably wish to have the best indirect fire and fire control systems combined with mobility. Same in the air, dogfighting characteristics of a fighter are quite meaningless. Sensory warfare, survivability, actual BVR capabilities and things like speed and ease of maintenance, maintenance logistics etc. and how well the fighter integrates with the information systems and situational awareness stuff.
But were they brand new Rafales? If they were free I'm guessing they were older near the end of their lifespan (or at least going to be scrapped/replaced but in good condition). Could have just been extra inventory not in use by anyone (as in no air force owned them). Because France is in a joint 6th gen fighter program that will star replacing the Rafale by (they hope) 2040. (and germany's typhoons and spains hornets) I think this is the airframe they (france, germany and spain) are going with. Looks like France and Germany are the ones designing/building it and Spain is just helping with funding. Not to be confused with the OTHER Future Air Combat System program which is made up of the UK, Italy and Sweden.
I would think brand new Rafales, they are still trying to sell new Rafales and were trying to sell them to us too. Greece is actually getting F-35's and the only way they were able to sneak in a couple of Rafales was to essentially give them for free and 'off the counter' with essentially immediate deliveries.
I don't think they were free. They (the 6 they just got) might have just been extra thrown in. Greece is overhauling their military. Greece is getting 24 Rafales total Dassault Aviation, which makes the aircraft, sold Greece six new aircraft that were already in production for Egypt. Greece is to receive six used planes from the French air force this year, and six next year. It has also ordered an additional six new aircraft to make up a squadron of 24. Greece also ordered 3 new french frigates. They are getting new helicopters and 84 modern F-16's. Probably to hold them over while the F-35 deal is being worked on and they actually get them. Which could be 10 years (by the time they actually start getting the planes). 11.5 billion overhaul of their military. So off those numbers I would say the F-16 will be their everyday plane with the Rafale doing more specialized stuff. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ghter-jets-as-part-of-115bn-military-overhaul
They certainly need to have a non-interrupted military capability especially in the air considering Turkey has fallen under Islamic influence and is increasingly anti-West and in a weird love-hate relationship with Russia. This makes the 'worst case' for Greece quite daunting: invasion from perhaps both Russia and Turkey supporting one another or even just Turkey with heavy Russian support in signal warfare, assets etc. in ways that would seek to avoid 4th Article while still having a significant impact on Greece's society and military.
Found it while looking for the Egypt stuff (they bought 30 Rafales) and an article there says Greece bought 18 Rafales. I'm not sure what happened for Greece to get 6 of Egypt's order. It says they (Greece) bought them but wouldn't Egypt have said they want fewer planes or offer them (through Dassault) to Greece? 12 of the Rafales will be used (I think all from the French air force) and 12 brand new. And apparently of Europe only France, Greece and now Croatia use the Rafale. Most of the customers for it are not European countries. I think most of the european fighter fleet (all the NATO ones) are F-16s or Eurofighters.
French aviation tends to suffer from epidemic maintenance problems - apparently the design neglects ease of maintenance and they have a history of having to remove massive amounts of large components in order to access some of the parts that most often require access to or replacing. And I won't even speak of their nuclear power plant here that ended up taking and costing like ~4x what they promised.
I mean it doesn't help that the engineers all flee in terror whenever there's a conflict about the design.
"We tried to surrender to the vehicle but it still wouldn't run to Paris" You fool. Of course surrendering to your Citroen won't take you to Paris. You'd need a German car for that.
