Battletech (PC) Persistent Campaign Discussion

Discussion in 'BattleTech (Harebrained)' started by MagnusEffect, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Compared to megamek, there are a ton of limitations, unfortunately. However, I'm still inclined to work with it as setup and mission runs will still be loads faster than megamek on a good day. I would still like to return to megamek eventually, but school prevents that from happening for the next 12 months give or take.

    My biggest annoyance at the moment is that you can't deploy with less than 4 mechs. Makes it very hard to do asymmetrical scenarios. Until something changes, we are treating empty slots as being filled with "reservists" that work for your employer. Reservists will always have stock garbage mechs (either locusts or urbanmechs at this point). You can replace them with your own units as you grow your forces.

    Details for what players start with is still WIP, but you can get a taste by following this link:
    http://www.theskjaldborg.com/index....istent-campaign-discussion.11718/#post-276905
     
    StalaggtIKE likes this.
  2. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    I've been trying to build my own content by hacking together .json files... thus far they aren't working yet.
     
  3. Demon Stalker

    Demon Stalker Well Liked Viking

    Messages:
    4,376
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Very intersted in the concept, if I can find time.

    Obviously, we aren't talking immediate future, but as an example I have 3 blog posts, a 15 page book, 5 characters, and an adventure all to write by next weekend. Plus I need to finish editing 2 books this week.
     
  4. Lardaltef

    Lardaltef Well Liked Berserker

    Messages:
    16,957
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    That was a fun match between my jenner, kintaro, quickdraw and victor against a vindicator centurion orion and awesome. The cent and orion pushed far enough that they were not getting much support from the vindicator and awesome. Also the AI seems to use the precsion strike alot. Ends up making the awesome far less dangerous.
     
    Solis Obscuri likes this.
  5. Damion Sparhawk

    Damion Sparhawk The Missing Link Viking

    Messages:
    9,453
    Likes Received:
    4,957
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    I find that if you want the AI to do anything remotely intelligent you have to actually build the mechs for the opposition intelligently, including making sure they have the appropriate pilots for the mechs they're running. The AI will severely handicap a decent mech if you put a pilot with an ability that doesn't mesh well, such as precision shot, which is a great ability, but is only useful with certain mech builds, or under specific circumstances. Hopefully the AI is also a work in progress, but at the moment if you want a challenge, build the enemy team just as lovingly as you build your own. Except keep simplicity in mind, giving an Awesome a pilot with precision because it has a PPC is probably just going to cause the Awesome to be wasted as a sniper in the back.
     
  6. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Agreed. By comparison, giving the AI Panthers or Hunchbacks will give you a run for the money.
     
    StalaggtIKE and Lardaltef like this.
  7. StalaggtIKE

    StalaggtIKE Well Liked Viking

    Messages:
    5,732
    Likes Received:
    5,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    GA,USA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Svinfylking
    Hunchbacks in general have been pretty tough. I love it.
     
  8. Lardaltef

    Lardaltef Well Liked Berserker

    Messages:
    16,957
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    I might like the laser hunchback more thqn the ac20 one. Though they might work even better in pairs. Use ac20 one first to open a mech up and laser to finish a mech.
     
    MagnusEffect likes this.
  9. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    Digging through the AI there are currently about 3 active patterns;

    Most mechs are by default given Brawler archetypes. They are fairly aggressive, strongly prefer to attack targets to which they can do the most damage, show little positioning preference except preferring to present their strongest armor facing to an enemy, and have a greater willingness to enter melee distance than other archetypes do, and are strong at melee attacks.. Brawlers have a very slight preference to gaining higher ground. They prefer not to bunch up with friendly units. They will always try to brace when unsteady. Expect brawlers to move in aggressively, show no interest in flanking, and brace often when under heavy fire.

    The Flanker archetype is also quite aggressive, but fairly rare. Flanker archetypes have a strong preference to attack targets to which they can do the most damage, nearly as high of a preference to targets with low armor, a slight preference for flanking shots, and a preference to present their strongest armor facing to the enemy. They are more willing to enter melee distance than any archetype except the Brawler, but do less damage than Brawlers in melee. They prefer not to bunch up with friendly units. Expect flankers to always try to maneuver aggressively and pursue weak or wounded targets first, and never to brace.

    The Sniper archetype is slightly less common than Brawlers. Snipers also prefer to attack targets to which they can do the most damage, and have similar preferences to engaging weak armor and taking flanking shots as does the Flanker. Unlike the other archetypes, they strongly prefer to stay outside melee distance whenever possible, and also show a strong preference to placing themselves not only where they are unlikely to receive fire, but also where they will receive little damage if hit. They exhibit the highest preference to gaining high ground. Snipers gain a bonus to ranged damage. Expect Snipers to play cautiously, but to attack opportunistically against the weakest targets available, particularly when they can get flanking shots, and never to brace.

    The Spotter archetype is the least aggressive and least common. They share the Sniper's preference to gain high ground when possible and a moderate preference position themselves where they are difficult to target and damage. Their strongest preference is to maintain LOS on enemy targets. They prefer to stay outside of melee range, have only a slight preference to attack targets to which they can do the most damage, and tend to do diminished melee and ranged damage. They have no tendency to brace. Expect Spotters to present relatively little direct threat, but to instead try to stay out of the line of fire and try to hold LoS, and never to brace. Probably a lowest target priority except when the enemy team is LRM-heavy. Currently the naming for Spotters seems to be inconsistent, and the mech files list the role as "Scout", so it's likely they aren't working correctly right now.

    So in terms of exploiting AI, its pretty easy to split Snipers from Brawlers and Flankers just by engaging from a strong position and not offering them easy long-range shots from high ground. Brawlers can be locked down by heavy missile fire. Flankers are the nastiest threat due to the potency of flanking in this game, and should be focused quickly if at all possible.

    Archetype role by chassis:

    Brawler:
    Atlas AS7-D
    Battlemaster BLR-1G
    Centurion CN9-A
    Centurion CN9-AL
    Hunchback HBK-4G
    Hunchback HBK-4P
    Orion ON1-K
    Orion ON1-V
    Quickdraw QKD-4G
    Quickdraw QKD-5A
    Urbanmech UM-R60
    Victor VTR-9B
    Victor VTR-9S


    Flanker:
    Commando COM-1B
    Commando COM-2D
    Griffin GRF-1S
    Jenner JR7-D
    Kintaro KTO-18
    Shadowhawk SHD-2D
    Shadowhawk SHD-2H

    Sniper:
    Awesome AWS-8Q
    Awesome AWS-8T
    Catapult CPLT-C1
    Griffin GRF-1N
    Jagermech JM6-A
    Jagermech JM6-S
    Locust LCT-1M
    Panther PNT-9R
    Trebuchet TBT-5N
    Vindicator VND-1R

    Spotter/Scout:
    Griffin GRF-1N
    Locust LCT-1S
    Locust LCT-1V
    Shadowhawk SHD-2H

    The individual pilot files don't show any tendencies towards a specific role, so it looks like behavior is determined by mech selection.

    Though also be aware that different mechs with the same archetype won't always behave the same, due to their differences in capabilities. For example, as a Sniper the Awesome will tend to prefer to hang back, but if you get to close, its greater preference to dealing high damage against weak armor will kick in and it will attempt to flank you and melee for ungodly amounts of damage (almost as high as an Atlas, and quite a bit higher than a Battlemaster... which I find odd).
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
    Lardaltef and MagnusEffect like this.
  10. Damion Sparhawk

    Damion Sparhawk The Missing Link Viking

    Messages:
    9,453
    Likes Received:
    4,957
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    yet the last game I had found the urbanmechs acting like spotter/sniper
     
  11. Lardaltef

    Lardaltef Well Liked Berserker

    Messages:
    16,957
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    Usually when i fight urbies they stay at range.
     
  12. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    I have to give the designers a lot of credit for tweaking AI behavior based on a mech's performance or perceived role.
     
    Solis Obscuri and Lardaltef like this.
  13. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    I've noticed that too, yet they don't try to flank like a sniper should. My suspicion is that they have little incentive to close range due to their autocannon providing nearly all their firepower, and that their poor movement rate discourages moving very much... AI by default likes to keep LOS on a target, and on any rough or hilly terrain the Urbie can easily lose LOS when moving.

    There also seems to be some self-preservation function built in that encourages 'mechs to disengage when below a certain armor threshold, and that may also be discouraging the Urbies from directly engaging heavier forces... I haven't found or figured out all the logic.
     
    MagnusEffect and Lardaltef like this.
  14. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    Also interesting is the "lifepath" file:
    BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\lifepathNode

    Basically it looks sort of like the Mechwarrior RPG, where you start with some background (noble or commoner from a variety of great houses or periphery) and then have various possibilities that can randomly send you to a career as a merchant, pirate, military recruit, mercenary, tech, military officer, criminal, noble functionary, or even a Comstar adept (which seems to reward you shit ton of tactics and little else), with each layer of progress defining what attributes your pilot gains.
     
    Lardaltef likes this.
  15. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
  16. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    Lardaltef likes this.
  17. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
  18. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    I am so behind on datamining...
     
  19. Lardaltef

    Lardaltef Well Liked Berserker

    Messages:
    16,957
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    Don't worry. People were datamining in the skirmish beta.
     
  20. Demon Stalker

    Demon Stalker Well Liked Viking

    Messages:
    4,376
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    I thought I was seeing more King Crabs near the CC.