Discussion: Aircraft

Discussion in 'Campaign - 33XX: The Corporate Century' started by MagnusEffect, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    The standard BT rules for aerospace and other aircraft are, quite frankly, ridiculous in terms of not just gameplay balance but what one could reasonably expect to fly.

    Here are the current limitations for combat aircraft in this campaign:
    • Combat Fixed Wing tonnage cannot exceed 35 tons.
    • Combat VTOLs tonnage cannot exceed 20 tons.
    • Armor tonnage cannot exceed 1/4 of the vehicle's total mass.
    • Average fuel tank tonnage is 3/4/5 for short/medium/long range fighters
    • Average speed will be 8/12 with up to a +/- 2 MP difference depending on role (slower speeds for ground attack craft, faster for dog fighters).
    Although larger craft such as transports and heavy bombers could certainly push larger weight classes, I'm not going to deal with them at this time. Let's be honest... does anyone here REALLY want a 34th century heavy bomber flying over their head?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    Solis Obscuri likes this.
  2. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Common Designs

    Inner Sphere Aerospace:
    • Helldiver (15t) - ???
    • Bronco (20t) - Ground Support
    • Sabre (25t) - Multirole
    • Spad (30t) - "Heavy" Fighter
    Inner Sphere VTOLs:
    • (5 ton heli) - Scout
    • Strobos (10t) - Utility
    • Cheyenne (15t) - Light Attacker
    • Marathon (20t) - Attacker
    Inner Sphere Heavy VTOLs:
    • Karnov (30t) - Transport/Gunship
    Clans Aerospace
    • 1st Line -
    • 2nd Line - Issus
    Clan VTOLs:
    • ???
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    Solis Obscuri and Dihm like this.
  3. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Messages:
    23,379
    Likes Received:
    13,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Misery
    What about those Bronco's that we ran in to? Are those not on the standard list?

    [​IMG]
     
    Solis Obscuri and MagnusEffect like this.
  4. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    added
     
    Dihm likes this.
  5. SteelBear

    SteelBear Veteran Dovahbear Viking

    Messages:
    5,921
    Likes Received:
    5,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Eastern Shore, Maryland
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    I wouldn't mind one flying over my head if the bombs were meant for my enemies. I get what you're saying though and I've seen how absurd they can be. Hell, those little broncos had what, 60+ alpha damage?

    Now are we talking about aircraft we can buy/hire, or just ones for call ins like last night? We've discussed aero/conventionals before and I still agree with the decision you made then. They're too much of a pain and take far too long.
     
  6. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Messages:
    23,379
    Likes Received:
    13,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Misery
    Is there a place for a high speed aircraft 'scout' when we have high speed VTOLs as options? One that can fly on, get a 'snapshot' of enemy positions and then fly offboard?
     
    Solis Obscuri likes this.
  7. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Certainly that is possible, but it's hard to justify when there are better options available such as sensor probe drop which gives you 4 for 50 command pts (and those are permanent). I suppose there is some balancing of costs that needs to take place. I won't rule it out, but I have a few other things I need to get done first.
     
    Solis Obscuri likes this.
  8. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Messages:
    23,379
    Likes Received:
    13,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Misery
    Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking, lots of better options that take less time in the real world.
     
    Solis Obscuri and MagnusEffect like this.
  9. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    I nerfed all the fighters by adding another ton (on average) of fuel. From what I can tell, 4 tons of fuel is average with 3 being mostly for short range, and 5 being more for long range. 6 is rare, but not unheard of for larger aircraft.

    They are coming together nicely. The 35 tonners are only slightly better than the original Broncos you have already seen.
     
    Dihm likes this.
  10. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Proof that it is very possible to evade ASF even against good pilots:
    Capture.GIF

    The above example explained:

    Bronco is 4/5 with the following buffs:
    • Accurate Weapons (MG) -1 to-hit
    • Golden Goose -1 to-hit ground targets
    Spider has the following buffs to defense:
    • Evading (cannot attack this turn) +1 to-hit
    • Heavy Woods +2 to-hit
    • Moved 8 hexes +3 to-hit
    • Jumped +1 to-hit
     
    Dihm likes this.
  11. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    The speed thing isn't really speed per se, I was going to respond but decided it made more sense to just talk about it in the mechanics thread here:
    http://www.theskjaldborg.com/index.php?threads/aerospace-explained.11435/#post-270044
     
  12. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Messages:
    23,379
    Likes Received:
    13,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Misery
    I think this should highlight to people the importance of cover and speed. As you mech slows down you need to compensate for the movement modifier in some way, whether it is through cover from woods, smoke, stealth armor, or absorbing the damage. You don't want to get caught out in the open, even as a 75 ton mech. Solis can tell you how fun rockets to the back is. And that was from the little Broncos with cover
     
    Solis Obscuri likes this.
  13. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    yeah, partial cover is nice, but all too often I've seen some people try to hide behind partial cover (which only gives you +1) when they should stay moving at top speed (which often can give more than +1). I'm not saying it's always a bad idea... i'm just encouraging everyone to get familiar with the defense modifiers. a firm knowledge of those will definitely save your ass many times over.

    check here for more info on modifier bonuses and penalties (Attack Modifiers Table):
    http://www.theskjaldborg.com/index....rs-visual-guide-to-battletech-mechanics.5628/

    Also, don't forget you can always make your own cover by starting fires or popping smoke rounds (which I've tested and are VERY effective).
     
  14. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Messages:
    23,379
    Likes Received:
    13,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Misery
    There IS a reason I enjoy starting fires. Mostly for the glow. Mostly
    :psychotic:
     
  15. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    And I ran 4 or five hexes. I would've gotten it worse, but I used everything I could so they missed more than half their shots.
     
    Orcinus and Dihm like this.
  16. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Just to clarify, I wasn't really referring to anyone in particular. I wish your Lancer had survived (and you get a lot of respect from me for taking it so well), but hopefully your new and improved Hunchy will meet your expectations. :)

    There is also the "Evade" button which gives any attacker an additional +1 penalty to hit you. It's not much, but I think it can make all the difference sometimes, especially against a fighter barreling down on you. I also rearranged the buttons at the bottom. Evade and Hunker Down are now on the same page as Jump, Turn, and the other basic movement options. Should make it easier to use those commands now.
     
    Orcinus, Dihm and Solis Obscuri like this.
  17. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    Hunchy is love, Hunchy is life.

    And it's not like a Bronco killed me, it was the ridiculous Hivetech drones firing follow-the-leader LRM-20s with natural aptitude gunnery rolling straight 12s in a polar blizzard with high wind gusts. I feel like I actually compete with the new mech, using the Kyudo I was really struggling against higher-tech opponents.

    Only thing that's going to be a headache is researching a new bio.

    Btw, a question - should a new lancer also get a new callsign/handle? I think it would make sense in a way, but would mess with how our Drive folders and Roll20 are set up, creating a lot more admin work.
     
    MagnusEffect likes this.
  18. MagnusEffect

    MagnusEffect Administrator Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Messages:
    9,655
    Likes Received:
    6,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    I will leave that up to the creativity of the player. Technically, Darkstar Team is still functioning as your Handler survived the ordeal. You just have a new Lancer (it is not uncommon for Lancers to die in the line of duty). It's up to the player to decide if the Handler insists on keeping the old callsign or allows the Lancer to pick a new one (from a practical standpoint, obviously its easier to keep your old one).

    Theoretically, it is not too much of a stretch in this timeline to pull a "Robocop" when a character dies. Obviously, they would in practice still be a new character, but I'm willing to give some wiggle room there as long as it's done intelligently. They could start off not even knowing who they were before... more machine than man. Tthat would be an interesting story arc to rediscover their old identity, but I would expect the player to put some work into it
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
    Orcinus, Solis Obscuri and Hakija like this.
  19. Solis Obscuri

    Solis Obscuri Well Liked Hirdman

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    7,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Renton, WA
    Ætt (Clan):
    Drakjägare
    Interesting idea, though given I would have been dispossessed as hell ($100k-$150k mission payouts due to limited combat effectiveness don't build a bank very fast) I'm thinking that isn't too applicable to my case.
     
  20. Hakija

    Hakija Chaos Pony Viking

    Messages:
    7,014
    Likes Received:
    8,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta, US
    Ætt (Clan):
    Huscarls
    Well, I just found my backup character.
     
    Orcinus likes this.