FOR SCIENCE!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Benjamin the Rogue, Dec 22, 2015.

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Do we "SCIENCE!"?

  1. Hell, yeah! I SCIENCE! all the time around here! Why do you think so many boilers explode?

    16 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. I don't SCIENCE! but I sure as hell will hold a beer & watch someone SCIENCE!

    6 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. I live my life in a vacuum devoid of even virtual particles. I know not the SCIENCE! you speak of.

    2 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

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    13,909
    Gravitational Lensing. It's awesome, yo.
     
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  2. Iron Fang

    Iron Fang Well Liked Thrall

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    The Universe laughs at what we think we know. It mocks us.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    That's the thing. The greatest physicians are puzzled: "why does this even work?"

    It's even a greater mystery than how joysticks are supposed to be competitive in SC.
     
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  4. Iron Fang

    Iron Fang Well Liked Thrall

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    602
    I made a funny! Me can count to potato!

    [​IMG] upload_2016-8-28_23-37-4.png
     

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  5. Damion Sparhawk

    Damion Sparhawk The Missing Link Viking

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    you know, I'm half tempted to build myself a joystick using a fucking laser mouse as the electronic tracking part of the joystick, everyone keeps going off about how a mouse is more sensitive blah blah blah ad nauseum, but I have yet to even hear about someone building a joystick that actually uses equal level tech. Almost every joystick uses potentiometer/rheostats to tell the device what the stick is doing when you could literally use the same ultra high definition laser imaging against the internal moving mechanism of the stick to obtain perhaps even greater levels of control and function, but because joysticks aren't 'in' nobody is willing to invest the time and money. Hell even the high end HOTAS setups aren't necessarily a step up from something you'd have found in the arcade in the 80's/90's. Don't get me wrong, analog (or even digital resistance) controls can do some amazing things, but if we're gonna compare apples and oranges we should at least compare apples and oranges from the same technological era. Joystick technology has been stagnant for nearly 20 years, if not more than.
     
  6. Damion Sparhawk

    Damion Sparhawk The Missing Link Viking

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    with sufficient thrust, it totally would be XD
     
  7. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    Well, it isn't helping the sale of joysticks that even SC will likely suffer if you use one. If everyone builds their games around punishing players for using a really cool controller then people won't want to buy them.

    For a second I thought that it would be as simple to do what you suggested as simply putting the laser emitter on the shaft coaxially and then pick up where it's shooting at on the bottom of the interior.
     
  8. Damion Sparhawk

    Damion Sparhawk The Missing Link Viking

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    9,454
    it might be, but then you'd have the whole weight of the mouse as well as the joystick to swing around.
     
  9. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    6,547
    http://observer.com/2016/08/not-a-d...ible-extraterrestrial-signal-from-deep-space/

    Not a Drill: SETI Is Investigating a Possible Extraterrestrial Signal From Deep Space
    If the signal is truly from an alien world, it’s one far more advanced than ours
    By Robin Seemangal • 08/29/16 11:02am
    Paul Gilster broke the story after the researchers quietly circulated a paper announcing the detection of “a strong signal in the direction of HD164595.”

    The mysterious star’s designation is HD164595, and it’s considered to be sun-like in nature with a nearly identical metallic composition to our own star. So far, a single Neptune-like (but warmer) planet has been discovered in its orbit—HD 164595 b. But as Gilster explained, “There could, of course, be other planets still undetected in this system.”

    Decorated Italian SETI researcher and mathematician Claudio Maccone along with Russia’s Nikolai Bursov of the Special Astrophysical Observatory are the principal scientists working on the apparent discovery. They claim that “permanent monitoring of this target is needed.”

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    The RATAN-600 Radio Telescope in Russia. (Photo: Wikimedia Commons)

    “The signal conceivably fits the profile for an intentional transmission from an extraterrestrial source,” said Alan Boyle, author of The Case for Pluto who reported the story for Geekwire. “In any case, the blip is interesting enough to merit discussion by those who specialize in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.”

    The signal’s strength indicates that if it in fact came from a isotropic beacon, the power source would have to be built by a Kardashev Type II civilization. (The Kardashev scale is used to determine the progress of a civilization’s technological development by measuring how much energy was used to transmit an interstellar message.) An ‘Isotropic’ beacon means a communication source emitting a signal with equal power in all directions while promoting signal strength throughout travel.

    In his acclaimed work “Transmission of Information by Extraterrestrial Civilizations,” Soviet astronomer Nikolai Kardashev explained that a Type II civilization would be able to harness the energy of their entire host star. The most common hypothetical example of this would be a Dyson Sphere—which is a massive artificial structure that could completely encapsulate a star and transfer the energy to a nearby planet.

    [​IMG]
    A cut-away diagram of an idealized Dyson shell, a variant on Dyson’s original concept.(Photo: Wikimedia Commons)

    Basically, if the signal was beamed out into the galaxy without aim or direction, that would require an enormous amount of power to actually be detected. But what if the signal was beamed specifically at our solar system? Well, that would require less energy and could indicate the presence of a Kardashev Type I civilization—meaning that it could be a highly technological, contemporary society that harnesses the solar energy emitted by its local star, much like our planet does with solar panels. This particular civilization’s social structure is theorized to be completely globalized and interconnected.

    “The signal is provocative enough that the RATAN-600 researchers are calling for permanent monitoring of this target,” said Gilster. And that’s exactly what is transpiring. As of last night, the SETI institute is diverting its Allen Telescope Array in northern California to investigate while their counterparts at METI International (Messaging Extraterrestrial Intelligence) will use Panama’s Boquete Optical Observatory.

    The detection of the mysterious signal and the ensuing investigations will be discussed at the IAA SETI Permanent Committee during the 67th International Astronautical Congress in Guadalajara, Mexico, on September 27—the same day and location where Elon Musk will reveal his plans to colonize Mars. The Observer will be following up on both these stories from the Congress.

    Robin Seemangal focuses on NASA and advocacy for space exploration. He was born and raised in Brooklyn, where he currently resides. Find him on Instagram for more space-related content: @nova_road.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  10. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    6,547
    Reading further, there's been no further signals detected over 15 months and it could be some form of interference.

    Yet it could be significant enough to redirect some resources to closely monitor the potential source.
     
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  11. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

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    13,909
    I'm fine with SETI... but not so with METI. We should really only listen for things first, before broadcasting our presence to the galaxy at large. The singles we've created thus far are spreading out... but they weren't very powerful in terms of interstellar distances. In all likelihood, they are completely undetectable from background radiation at about 100 ly out, max. I'd rather not wave our hands in the air for fear of attracting, not a fellow mouse, but a large cat instead.
     
  12. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    There are species of water living creatures in the deep dark waters of our planet.

    They have evolved the ability to shine bright light patterns.

    Most of the time they don't highlight themselves to predators.

    Attack one though and it will shine like a beacon, attracting every last predator in the vicinity to the scene. Chances are they'll attract something that will eat the fish attacking them. Most of the time they still get eaten personally. Most of the time the predator gets away.


    Now, for the 2 second transmission from 95 ly distance it was calculated that it would have been Level II civilization - utilizing the entire output of their star to make such a broadcast.

    Now, we may have used a few megawatt at most for tech demo signal? It won't be seen anywhere. If you make it to the distance it can be seen from you can already see our planet, pretty much. And if someone dangerous was near enough to pick up our signals then we wouldn't have the time to do anything about it anyway.

    Our best bet is to have a few hundred or thousand years of time to get our defenses up. Even then it's all a matter of dice roll as to who we have in the neighborhood and how far they are.


    I think the people wanting to broadcast our position and details into space should be tried for treason.
     
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  13. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

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    13,909
    I just want to know why they think it's a good idea in the first place. If I find out, I'm pretty sure I can convince them otherwise.
     
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  14. Hakija

    Hakija Chaos Pony Viking

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    7,014
    So you're saying that whatever the reason is, it must be a bad one? Maybe they could change your mind.
     
  15. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    It usually revolves around things like "hey, I think that all progress leads towards less violence and more democracy and there are no alternate paths that a species could take so therefore the sooner we announce our presence the sooner we have a chance of making friends".

    Essentially it is naivism.
     
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  16. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

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    They could, but I have a funny feeling most of the time it's as Sheep laid out. Just complete and total naivism. Because they are aliens, they won't be expansionist, etc. etc.
     
  17. SheepHugger

    SheepHugger Well Liked Viking

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    Typically scientists are a special breed of academiacs who have a tendency for loving maths and natural sciences because they're comprehensible and you can just figure out things with experiments or in the case of maths you can be a god and just not need anything and build immense abstract constructs and proofs.

    Just like everyone else they tend to shy away from real politics and economics and real world problems and surrounded by nerds and geeks who live fabulous bubbled up lives they can truly live in a fantasy world where if they finally figure out how to cure cancer or invent a new algorithm for broadband communications that murder, famine and wars will all disappear and everyone will lay down arms and borders will disappear and everyone will have a job in the science or as interior decorators or clothes designers and architects if they're not scientists.

    They also like to pretend that things like Communist regimes and various Fascist regimes were some form of exception or blips or mistakes or that USA won because it was democratic. US won because it had the most factories. It had the most factories because it was sitting on top of massive resources and was perfectly situated for trade and because it belongs to same economic sphere as UK which practically invented industrialization but in case of USA they had even better opportunities to put it all to use while having access to it.

    Few minor details going differently early on and World War II ends with Fascists or Communists emerging as global hegemony and with the hindsight of saying "all other systems were doomed to fail because they were inherently flawed". Especially eugenic, racist and genocidal Nazis would have shaped history of the world quite differently. Their plans were to exterminate roughly 70% of East Europe's population and the survivors would either be slaves or assimilated into "Aryan race" which they had plans to 'refine' and 'cultivate' into further 'perfection'.

    For all we know the first contact we make could be with a species that considers themselves a manifestation of some god of theirs and having an ideology of Manifest Destiny that they must purge the galaxy of all other forms of life and seed it with their righteous and divine kind. Merely having things like reactionless drives or warp fields or antimatter energy storage or Dyson spheres is not political.

    For some reason democratic scientists tend to think that technological advancement leads to democracy because they believe that a society "progresses" towards ultimate goal of 'tolerant inclusive democracy' and that any alternate development is 'regressive'.

    It is arrogant as hell.

    *I didn't discuss politics. I discuss history and alternate history and a type of character.

    TL;DR

    Just because a person is a scientist doesn't mean that the person cannot be ignorant in matters outside one's own field of specialization. Just look at Michio Kaku.
     
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  18. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

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    I mean, I get why you did it, but also whhyyy. Your penchant for diverging into multiple tangents within a single post still astounds me. You could've simply said your TL;DR and have been done with it.
     
  19. j.p.

    j.p. Well Liked Berserker

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  20. Hollister

    Hollister Fun-Taker Berserker

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    Everyone wants to go out into space and have contact with aliens but have they ever actually thought about it. A space fairing alien in my opinion would need one thing. I also do not think humans will ever get to the space fairing age as I fully believe we will kill ourselves off by then.

    That is the ability to fully understand that their species comes before anything else.

    Humans right now always put themselves before others, their own cultures, countries, states and so on. A space fairing race fully needs to understand the greater good of the whole. That to do this with using the full power of the entire planets resources towards space colonization will always be far greater then any not doing this, to do anything else will lead to a disadvantage. Humans need to understand they have a place on the galactic map and eventually someone is going to come knocking. Sort of like the first expansions done by civilizations on earth was very hostile, I fully believe space to be hostile as well.

    Though being attacked by aliens would bring humans together under a single cause.

    but with that being said.

    If I was the leader of a alien race looking at humans. I would just throw a few asteroids from the belt in system at earth to do most of the damage if humans did not cede to my will.
     
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