Even if they do have an rpg, it is highly unlikely they would use it. They want to capture the ship and crew as close to unharmed as possible, for max resale value. Besides, even they know that shooting something explosive at a tanker, or cargo ship, could very well mean boom. Which just leaves they typical small arms, AK's and pistols, possibly a belt fed weapon. Any decent marksmen on a mostly stable platform, such as one of the decks of a large tanker/cargo ship, should be able to remove the threat. I have read many reports of potential pirates being turned away just by a few warning shots into the water. They are looking for easy prey. My friend was given his choice of weapons from a list of what the company had in its inventory. He could also add any accessories he wanted that were on the approved list. He used a customized ar-10 and added a few extras to it.
It was mostly your Laser/IR designators, wasn't it? The "newer" PEQ-15's are pretty small and light, but I've seen some of the older models. Those things were fucking bricks.
After a few people lost some while "attached" to the rifle, we had been told to only put them on the rifle when they gave them to us. However the base m16a2 is what 6.8 lbs if memory serves. You can buy the civilian version that I got from FN which starts at 8.2 lbs. They call it the military collector M16, has all the same crap I had minus the 3 round burst. Our unit was retarded.. So.. we had to keep the carry handle sight on the rifle itself. While still having the peep sight. had to keep a loaded mag on the rifle with a buttstock mag pounch. Add the silly grip pod thing that is a forward grip and bipod in one, add acog which I hated, and sling. So just as a guess, 8.2 rifle + .5 carry sight + 1.8 mag + .6 grip + 1 acog + .2 sling ~ 12.3 lbs. give or take as I weighed mine while over there.
From what I remember hearing in a brief RPGs had about a 60% chance of actually going off if it hit and didnt slide off. From what we had been told it is because of how the detonator is designed. Don't know if that is true but something I heard about as I never had to experience it first hand. The crazy stuff I dealt with was the ever growing level of hiding ieds in the most mind numbing ways. Had a brief after getting in country after a month to never take mre from kids that are trying to give them to us. A ied was hid inside a mre bag and they blew the thing while the kid was in the process of giving it to the marine. LIKE WTF We also had kids trying to throw grenades into the turret hatches. Couldn't fire back as they are in a crowd and ROE was to not engage if that was case.
Last year we had a watermelon explode taking out a national government police truck, apparently you can get a decent sized bomb in one. The phrase let's blow this popsicle stand took on a whole new meaning when one of the small ice cream push carts was used as an IED carrier.
I wouldn't expect 'well armed' pirates to use RPG's anyway, what's the point if you incidentally blow up the cargo you're trying to steal/ransom? Mortar's would make more sense simply due to alternative payloads, smoke and gas are quite useful when you're trying to invade a floating castle and indirect fire means you can fire without being easily fired upon. Modern piracy would also benefit quite a bit from psychological warfare, it's not profitable to kill people when you don't have to, simply -having- a flame thrower might be deterrent enough to quell almost all resistance on a ship, because fighting in tight corridors against fire is never a pleasant experience. And that's just relatively low tech, easy to acquire/craft weapon systems. (just watch Savage Builds episode on the ZF-1 and you'll see just how easy it would be to build a fully functional flame thrower for illicit purposes.)
I would love to watch anyone try to use a mortar in a small craft on the high seas. (they call it "high seas" for a reason) All those other things you mentioned are completely impractical for your average pirate. They are not some kind of modern day Jack Sparrow and the vast majority of them are kind of shit at piracy... but that's because most of them are doing it out of desperation. No sane person "wants" to be a pirate these days. You do that shit because you lost your real job. Honestly, if you have the means, it's safer and more profitable to be in the illegal drug industry.
you're right about the average pirate, we were simply speculating about 'well armed' pirate. Also Jack Sparrow wasn't exactly swimming in doubloons XD. As for firing a mortar, I'm sure there'd be some practice required, but we're clearly not talking about your average Joe Swarthy, either. Not going to spend much time speculating about it however as I've spent very little time shipboard and/or firing a mortar that wasn't commercially available. (read, firework)
I have more experience than most in open water and let me tell you it is no leisure row on the lake. The smaller the craft and the more wind you have, the more you get tossed around. Add to the fact that tankers can make big enough swells you can literally surf and you are more often than not dealing in rough seas. I would consider this somewhat "normal": This is your "average-sized" pirate vessel: Small = fast and they need "fast" to catch and board big tankers before military rescue can respond. It's a bit like trying to shoot a gun while riding a galloping horse on uneven terrain. Sound like something you want to try? Okay, now add explosives to the mix. Still want to try that? Really? All I'm saying is on your average day at sea in your average sized pirate boat, you ain't gonna hit shit with mortars or RPGs from any appreciable distance. Fuck, if I was in a boat that size, I would not want a fucking muzzle loaded mortar anywhere near me. You are just asking to blow yourself up. Also more likely, you will get gunned down by armed guards before getting close enough to hit with an explosive projectile. That doesn't mean pirates are smart enough to know better. To be fair to your statement, it turns out they do try, but all sources I've seen stated its not as effective as just rushing the boat and boarding with machine guns. As stated earlier, shooting explosives at a tanker seems to be counterproductive; explosives won't help you if your goal is to board a tanker and ransom its crew. Regardless of popular opionion, ranged attacks with RPGs and mortars will NOT stop a massive tanker in any efficient amount of time. They are better at floating than people give them credit for. Worse case scenario, some pirates shoot some holes in a tanker and then one of two things happens: the ship shrugs it off because it has MASSIVE displacement and it does not give a fuck about a few holes or (much less likely) the explosion hits something critical and an oil fire starts on the surface of the water. Either way, that ship ain't sinking for many, many hours and a military rescue response is never too far away. If I was a smart pirate, I would know that RPGs and mortars are a waste of time and money. If I was a smart pirate, I would attack in fast boats at night (only day if no other option) and just focus on boarding. The faster the ship is boarded, the faster you have hostages and can GTFO of there. Interesting that we had very few pirate attacks between 2013 and 2017, but now its on the rise again... and not everywhere you would think: https://www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-reporting-centre/live-piracy-map
Remember when I mentioned mortar, I was referring to ALTERNATE payloads, not explosive. Gas, smoke, etc... blind/incapacitate whatever guards are present. Also remember the discussion at hand, I know what a typical modern pirate consists of, desperate men using whatever means they have available on the off chance of surviving long enough to strike it rich. But how would a group with means outfit themselves, if for whatever reason, piracy was the task of the day. Someone skilled at both seafaring and modern weaponry, tactics and gadgets. I've been in the deep ocean, and even around the really big ships. I know what you're referring to, by no means would I expect it to be easy, but I suspect it would still be possible. I mean, it's not like you have to be terribly precise, you could probably just strap the launcher to the front of the boat, point it in the general direction you want it to shoot, and time your drop just before you're cresting so it'll clear the waves. Them tankers are pretty damn big and if you can aim along the center line you're far more likely to hit it, than anything else. Of course, a smart pirate probably wouldn't be a pirate unless they had an in at the shipping company. It's way easier to capture a ship you're already on board.
Damion, just listen man. You are talking about things waaay outside your wheelhouse. You don't just "strap a mortar to the front of your boat". What you are suggesting is not practical for your average pirate.... for all the reasons I already stated. If it was, you would see it happening more often. Like I said, people do this out of desperation with what little tools they have. If they have money and skill for any gadgetry nonsense, they would use it to ply a trade that was less risky (legal or otherwise).
Pirating is more of a risk vs reward as with all crime. We are talking about the potential reward of hundreds of thousands or even millions of US dollars or Euros. This would be like hitting the megamillions jackpot for them because of the exchange rate. If they had any real competency they would have two small ships capable of carrying the speed boats with one ship based helicopter for reconnaissance. This way you could find a target to track have one ship in front as a blockade with help from the speed boats. The other ship in reserve to counter their movement. But that doesn’t happen What we see are a bunch of people crammed onto the fastest boat they can get and trying to run down a ship on the open sea that’s thousands of times bigger then them.
I'm an engineer, nothing is outside my wheelhouse. My experience may be limited in the field, but that will not stop me from putting things where they don't belong until they work the way I want (or it fails catastrophically...sometimes both) XD. You also make the mistake of assuming people are smart enough to use their skills effectively and there are whole lines of people waiting for employment would prove you wrong Also, Magnus, love you to death, but could you possibly tone down the patronizing? I don't expect anyone to go out and become the James Bond of pirates (with or without mortars on their conversion car/speedboat) it's just theorycrafting about methods and techniques that might be employed to effect. I'm sure there are delivery systems could do the same thing more reliably on the high seas, but unless your pirates also happen to have Bruce Wayne/Iron Man resources odds are they're going to be relying upon conventional weaponry moreso than purpose crafted munitions (unless we're going to discuss the possibility of modern military turning pirate for whatever reasons) I mean, you're right, but if you start talking about airborne surveillance then you might as well just dump your pirates aboard via helicopter and just have boats for after ransom extraction.
Thinking more of a 1 to 2 person helicopter with pontoons. Have to throw reliability out the window as this is 3rd world pirates. Real ingenuity would be taking a T34 tank as they are by far the most common and still relatively cheap. Would need a working main gun though. Take the turret ring and turret then transplant it onto the deck of a ship. One warning shot and just about any freighter would come to a complete stop. With machining tools you could with a few rounds get the dimensions to make copies of them. The turret on the t34 can also be operated manually. Grammar edit
Why don't you start by being less defensive. I'm not being patronizing. I'm not saying I'm better than you, but your "theorycrafting" here is nonsense... again, for all the reasons I so patiently explained already and you so adamantly continue to ignore. Grow up. I'm not going to sit here and wax on about shit that has nothing to do with reality. This thread is not suppose to be about "things that don't exist, but Damion thinks would be clever". I'm not sure why you are so intensely wanting to make it about that. The purpose of this thread was to point out and archive real-world examples. If you want to theorycraft, make a new thread. If you have a problem with me, I suggest we take the conversation elsewhere. STAY. ON. TOPIC.
Keanu looks like Winona Ryder in Stranger Things. Also, from a pure engineering perspective a mortar would not work no matter now much practice the crew had. Unless it was mounted on some sort of giant gyroscope. Every single pitching motion of the boat, as Magnus points out, would travel through the tube of the mortar and throw off the aim of the shell. Small craft on open ocean water are not smooth sailing. So sure, are there ways to make it work? Maybe in an utterly over engineered manner that takes up all the room on your boat. But that doesn't make it practical or a good solution. Your both right. Now kithhh.
Though the training role means that they emulate how a foreign air force fights, responds, reacts etc. to give a realistic "out of unit" adversary that is really not feeling any of that "go soft on them to make 'em feel nice". That's actually a very big issue with any martial training, really - going soft. Often times it is unconscious, we get so dug up in all the minute details that we suddenly don't realize that we're only doing stuff indoors with AC's on and from wrong distances etc. Sometimes we just don't want to embarrass people we know well. Then when it starts raining, your rifle sights get blurred by water and your hands shake because it's cold and the enemy suddenly won't let you sleep for a week you realize that your training didn't do much to prepare you for what an opponent actually does. Just take that stuff in the air. They're not just going to fly in line in neat formations ringing bells "here we are, take us out". Instead they may actually perform better than the actual adversary is going to, especially if they know of the tactics and technical weaknesses of the gear they are going up against which may come as a surprise for the actual enemy. ------------- That said by definition of a mercenary, they would have to engage in actual hostilities to earn the title of a mercenary by legal definition or they would have to be in a role where they would be expected to take part in hostilities by that role. Providing an externally organized OPFOR with foreign craft and their own tactics that deviate from how the actual pilots are trained and indoctrinated does not make them mercenaries; it makes them consultants.
