What kind of immortality would you rather come true?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by StalaggtIKE, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. StalaggtIKE

    StalaggtIKE Well Liked Viking

  2. Hunter Gamma

    Hunter Gamma Well Liked Viking

    [​IMG]

    Dips on Hourai Elixir!

    Oh, wait... no tampering with eternity allowed?
    Well, bummer...

    Seriously though, I think the combination of these will be the most realistic outcome in the long run. Many of these already overlap with each other.
    Some of them will be more convenient, risk-less and cost-effective. Idea of cybernetics for example is romantic and interesting path of transhumanisn, but alone it's clumsy and problematic. Combination of genetics, nanotechnology, AI and cybernetics on the other hand...
     
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  3. Hakija

    Hakija Chaos Pony Viking

    I'll go for nanomedicne. Then I can be JC Denton.

    One problem I can see here is that the Digital Immortality and AI options both result in the original human dying. You haven't made a person immortal, you've just created an immortal copy.

    BTW, the AI and cyborg girls are hot. Don't know why. I may be spending too much time around computers.
     
  4. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    I'm a fan of combining nano with cyborg, personally
     
  5. Hunter Gamma

    Hunter Gamma Well Liked Viking

    Yeah, this is actually a thing people seem to completely forget. Copying yourself isn't technically immortality.
    Same goes for cloning. You are not immortal. You just make another you. It's like saying two cars of same model are same car. They just look same, but they are their own entities and may have completely different life.
    Guess when your ego is high enough you still think copying yourself as a win.
     
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  6. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    Yeah, Nano and bioengineering for me. And that question Haki? That's one that will likely be fought over for some time. Any 'copy' uploaded to a internet of sorts would argue that they are, for all intents and purposes, the same as teh original.
     
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  7. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Depends on your definition of immortality. Are you considering only your human body living on forever as immortality? Cause I have news for you, every cell in your body gets replaced over time, so you aren't you after a certain point.

    You have an axe. You break the handle and replace it. Years later the head rusts and you replace it. Do you have the same axe?
     
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  8. Hakija

    Hakija Chaos Pony Viking

    My definition is that it's me in there. When I "upload" my mind into a computer, until my body dies, there are two Haki's (let that one sink in). That isn't me in the computer, it's just something that thinks it's me. It's a very good copy. No one else can tell the difference. But I know it isn't me.

    If you want to be metaphysical, it doesn't have my soul.
     
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  9. StalaggtIKE

    StalaggtIKE Well Liked Viking

    Indeed. I'm going to be that guy -- And what of the soul? That's the debate I expect to see a lot of in the future.
     
  10. Hunter Gamma

    Hunter Gamma Well Liked Viking

    In the end it comes down to ability to transfer consciousness, and way of proving you are the one from whom your mind was extracted.
    The magic question is, is your consciousness copied or transferred?
    It's complicated question and we can only get answers when we try it in practice at some point.

    EDIT: And speaking of soul.
    Firstly: I'm Atheist/Agnostic. But, I personally think if there's some sort of soul it is connected to your consciousness. You could say it's connected to you, or you to it, from another plane of existence. What happens to you in this world will not affect it.
    What is that other plane? That's another discussion.
    And this is just my two woolongs so don't take it too seriously. Just my own thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
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  11. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Your Split would also know that you weren't you, because it would think that it was. How do you know you're you? How do you prove it? Your split thinks the exact same thing.

    How would you prove which was the dominant and which was the split? How would you prove that you weren't the 'clone'? Are both not equally viable and equally deserving of rights as sentient entities?
     
  12. Hakija

    Hakija Chaos Pony Viking

    If at any point during the process there are two independent entities that think themselves the same person, it was a copy. I think at this science and theology can agree with each other. Everything we know from both tells us that a true transfer is functionally impossible, unless we could prove that souls do in fact exist (even I will admit you can't), and can be moved from body to another.
    That "rights" of both are a completely separate question. Of course, one way around the problem is to use a scanning procedure that destroys the original brain. Solve both problems in one go.
     
  13. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    You skipped the part where you prove you aren't a copy.
    :p
     
  14. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    There is another way to solve it too. Wait to do the upload/copy/transfer until very near body death. If the body can no longer be supported by whatever medical science there is, then perform the upload/copy of the brain at that point, and the original will then die a 'natural' death.
     
  15. Hunter Gamma

    Hunter Gamma Well Liked Viking

    And what Dihm said brings out the dilemma of multiple entities of same person. Is the original person the only "legally" real person? Who actually is the original? What are the copies? They are fully sentient beings too thus deserving of life and independent thought and yet people see them as copies, which makes them look "inferior".
     
  16. Hakija

    Hakija Chaos Pony Viking

    This is one of the reasons a scientist should always ask if they should do something before asking if they can do it.
     
  17. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    At what point do you consider a body to no longer be viable? Do you force a person to live in a tormented husk of a body, dealing with pain and despair, only to upload them at the last moment? One could say that is cruelty. Why not spare them that suffering and allow them to upload sooner? Then you have to define at what point you allow uploading. And what do you do for people who WANT to be uploaded? What do you do for people who attempt suicide? Waiting till the last moment for upload is, like all of these other things, asking for a world of complication.
    Like the concept of a multiverse, every split leads to a new identity, as each variation would begin to gain experience from a divergent perspective. DO people see each as a copy, when there is no method of proving which is 'real' or not? I see a new civil rights movement to combat clone discrimination
     
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  18. StalaggtIKE

    StalaggtIKE Well Liked Viking

    I think the should would be once we've mastered planet colonization.

    Edit: Like Dihm said each copy would experience a unique perspective therefore becoming someone different.
     
  19. Trevnor

    Trevnor Tokin' Canadian Staff Member Jarl SC Huscarl

    If we are at the point where Nanotech is a very prevalent thing that people can get easily and cheaply, then it stands to reason that said nanotech could be used to shut off pain, to prevent it in the first place all together. It could very well be that the question you've posed will be moot by the time we can upload minds into a machine.
     
  20. Dihm

    Dihm Speaker of the Word Staff Member Gothi SC Thane

    Are we even having the 'human experience' any more, if we shut off pain?
     
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