Cange out the ER medium lasers and the head flamer for regular medium lasers. Cange out the AMS and its ammo with two small lasers. Cange out the ERPPC with 2 LRM 10s and one ton of ammo Finally change out the ECM with a targeting computer. What you end up with is a beast of a Berserker! Perfect heat control gives you good speed, a propper 40pt can opener with the axe, ferocious short range crit seeking that can also be focused with the targeting computer, LRMs help with the initial heat build up and gives you something to do while closing, the light engine makes it more survivable than the XL of regular berserkers and the c3 slave gives your friends top notch targeting information while you bash heads.
Good point, I meant the BRZ C3 So now that we are clear about what mech we are talking about, what do you think about it?
not to rain on your day, but mechs with axes get primaried pretty consistently. targeting computer only makes it worse. having both is painting a HUGE target on yourself. it only guarantees people will try to kill you as quickly as possible. also, that is an incredibly expensive fit; brawling would be putting it in excessive danger. edit: my mistake... i thought you said C3 master. c3 slave is different. still, the axe + TC combo is asking for a lot of trouble. i would focus on short or long. if long, go TC, if short, go axe and buff your maneuverability ( add JJs). an axe wielding mech that goes less than 5/8 is easily out maneuvered in most situations. JJs and urban terrain will help mitigate this. if you are going TC, i wouldn't bother with missiles as they gain no benefit from the TC... direct firing weps would be the way to go (ER PPCs and Gauss should fit nicely). finally, when it comes to ammo based weapons 15 rounds for EACH weapon is the MINIMUM i would carry. any less and your ammo based weapons will be running dry too often (20-25 is better though). all that said (and i don't say any of this to discourage your creativity), but keep in mind that you are packing on A LOT of expensive or semi-rare equipment (TC and Light Engines are Jihad era stuff). TSM is still quite rare and difficult to maintain. in most battletech campains you will probably not have access to most of this stuff. it is all still good for annoying your friends in exhibition games, but most of that rare stuff doesn't get used in serious play unless your GM is insane. Most vets stick with the non-Clan 3050 tech (MWO stuff, basically). Some still prefer 3025 tech. In the back of my mind there is still an idea of doing a "what if" alternate timeline campaign that would bring in some of the newer tech that isn't completely broken. Not happening anytime soon though.
Oh this was not an attempt of designing a cost effective mech (the BRZ C3 isnt), this was more to see how deadly I could make the C3 chassis. So Il answer the points not directly related to the cost/ benefit analysis. So the c3 network bit, some part of the network has to be close in order to benefit the other guys, this is that part (sure the same thing can be accomplished with a cheap fast mech, but this one is more survivable and scarier and it is the exact same thing the BRZ C3 does) JJ are nice but the design does not mount them currently (just as the C3 lack them, and generally I feel 5/8 should be enough) The TC maximises gain from attacks that need the extra to hit, and since medium lasers are short ranged they often need that. They are also beneficial when it comes to the weight and sice penalty of the TC since they are very weight to damage efficient (Remember this thing puts out 40 + 7*5 + 2*3 = 81 damage in CC and the ability to aim with the TC suddenly becomes a use full feature when you have a battery of lasers that can actually hit the hole created if something survies the axe hit. The fact that misses dont use the TC is a feature not a downside, since they don't bloat the TC so it still fits the ECM slot. Though tbh I prefer to use RL10s in this role but here I don't have the slots (and I do that in a entirely custom berserker) The main use of the misslies is to aid in heat buildup as the mech closes, that is also the reason it only carries one ton of ammo. Compare this mech to the regular BZR C3 and you will se how much more efficient it is. Try the mech in a battle in mega mech and you will see that it preforms it job. It is scary fast for size and delivers a terrible impact, its very easy to control the heat on, and its hard to stop. I got a whole set of different designs in store, some are no holds refits or custom designs such as this one. Other are fluffy designs built to to suit a "vision", and a last group (often vehicles) are built o provide maximum bang for your C-bill.
As a self-proclaimed Berserker connoisseur, I feel it would be right to place my two cents here. Magnus has already provided some of the most important points: If you're brawling (especially with that hatchet), you're gonna want speed and/or surprise. If you're slow, other mechs will simply run away from you as you lumber along swinging your axe at thin air. (Granted, if your prey is generally other assault mechs, then 5/8 is fine) TSM is badass if you can make it work, but I've found that it is too much work for not enough benefit. If you reach the appropriate heat level by firing all of your weapons, then maintaining that heat level would require not firing as many of your weapons, hurting your damage output in the long run (especially if you can't bring your 40-damage beatstick to bear) To make matters worse, having enough heat to keep TSM active hurts your accuracy In short, TSM leads you to focus on the hatchet at the expense of everything else Because brawling significantly increases the probability of getting shot (closer targets are generally easier to hit, after all), I choose to run all-energy loadouts, so that I don't have to worry about ammo explosions. (CASE is good, but getting half of your mechs blown off still sucks) Another thing, for my brawling mechs, I always carry a contingency for long-distance situations and need to close to raping-range Generally, this is ECM (especially if Ghost Targets are allowed), though the Void Signature System (since we're around that same tech level) is pretty dandy as well The Berserker is one of my favorite BattleMechs, so I wish you success on your designs.
Well as a Berserker connoisseur you should look closer as this Well berserkers don't come faster than this, the regular one risks with MASC to move at 8 this one does it constantly (because keeping the correct heat is a peace of cake) and you are totally correct in that assaults are the general target, this is basically a assault headhunter (smaller things tend to melt under a barrage of lasers if they are stupid enough to get close) You are totally right that it is bad ass when you make it work, this build is made to make it work I feel I have to exemplify here to get my point across, my best tip is to try it however, this is how to make TSM a love story). Heat dissipation 22, all medium lasers 21 heat, 2 small laser for heat control. This thing will always be running at 9 heat at the end and it will not waste much firepower doing it (at most one medium laser if running). The LRM's are there as a filler to make the mech function as a refit, but they also help the mech have some fun while it closes and it lets you build initial heat without turning on and of heatsinks. The TSM is not all bad even when you are not using the hatchet because the extra speed helps you get into position with the c3 and the ML battery (the gets help from the TC to increase hit chance) But I would be lying if i said the point of the build is not the hatchet, simply because that 40 damage walopp brings a warm feeling in my heart. Agreed that why this mech only has one ton of ammo, It is supposed to run out (or even be dumped) as a general rule this mech is more survivable than regular berserkers thanks to the light engine instead of the XL. So it is built to take a beating. (Just have a pilot good enough not to fall over) I can add however that the LRMs are not a perfect fit, they are there because this is a refit of a berserker model and not a stand alone one. The more extreme propose built variant has a battery of RL10s instead and they do the job with lighter weight and reduce ammo risk but that one has to do away with endo steel to fit the battery. (The RL10 battery also has the added bonus of a crazy round of fire as it closes and builds the initial heat.)
if we are not accounting for cost, obviously, that changes things quite a bit. one thing i dont understand though is why are you concerned about staying close to the "canon" of the design if you aren't concerned about cost too. they sort of go hand in hand. disregarding cost from a technical standpoint, JJs are WAY easier to fit than a TC or Light Engine. the Mechwarrior series has never got that right. most mechs can be retrofitted with JJs provided you have the facility and technical expertise. on the topic of TSM, i have extensive experience with this. Orc may have forgotten, but TSM heat level becomes RIDICULOUSLY EASY to manage correctly if you are energy weapons heavy and have the "dialing back energy weapons" rule turned on (that isn't actually what it is called, i forget the name of it). Essentially, it is an optional rule that allows you to adjust the energy output of all energy weapons; this means for every click of the button "mode" it will reduce any energy weapon's damage and heat by one. so if you need to run that perfect heat balance, you could have 5 energy weapons firing at full heat, and then have a sixth one that has its heat and damage dialed back to whatever level you require. (this is the reason i typically don't allow TSM to be used that much... it is INCREDIBLY overpowered with this rule turned on) one point that i really want to drill home though is about those LRMs. they are totally deadweight and here is why: you are only using them for long range punch (2 LRM 10s isn't much punch btw). they are completely ineffective at short range... practically unusable. they weigh 5 tons each plus one ton for ammo (11 tons total). two ER large lasers will give you better consistent damage, more focused damage, will weigh one ton less, AND have no ammo concerns. and since you should ONLY be using them for when you need long range punch, the 24 heat they would produce is easily manageable with your bank of DHS (you should have enough already). This is called Bracket Firing btw. It is the best way to equip a mech for both long range and short. You have a grouping of long range weapons and short range weapons. Either group should produce about the same amount of heat. Then you only need to equip enough heatsinks to fire one of the groups at a time as the situation demands. this is how i make almost all of my builds. here is a good example: https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Mega...ADM3Y6BYVSF2NfJLgqMMzwMIWp4jcrKLkF781AAYPMwCA (it is a lore-friendly design I built awhile back that relies heavily on bracket firing; note that it only has 20 heat capacity but can deal ~35 damage at long range and 45 damage at short... not counting pysical attacks... and all this with only a standard engine) if you haven't seen it yet, I STRONGLY recommend Skunkwerks for any future designs you may have: http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/ finally, if you want a good yard stick to judge your "UBER-mechs" by, take a look at the Marauder II used by the Bounty Hunter. Of all the canon mechs, I believe it has the highest BV. If you can top it, then you are doing pretty good. https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Mega...ADnNsHXFOLI_Z-_BNnSsq0s1FdmG71HeDTYPt_Q93MJkQ (also, i'm not sure 100% on this but I think it is impossible to break 4,000 BV) here is one of my more recent attempts at an UBER-mech (very similar to yours): https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Mega...AAY3fcQoCa9XFFNKMnfKEe7WVp72dVMOHuI7pggamEoRw (admittedly, this one has clan tech... couldn't find my other IS tech ubermech)
Tch. Not playing megamek for several months can make a disgruntled pilot forget details. Besides, I usually don't have that rule turned on, since I feel it makes managing TSM too easy. Concerning Cyk0's reply, I will reserve my judgment until I see this in action.
The mech already has the light engine since its the BZR C3, same thing with the TSM and the c3 slave. It's the reason its based on this variant. I can also ad that I have JJs on other variants of the mech(but its a bit boring since you jump 4 but run 8), even with the TC this is still a "Maintenance" refit Why have that rule on, if it means you don't allow TSM to be used (not that this mech needs it to function) I am very familiar with Bracket Firing, its basically impossible to do good basic tech designs without using it. I agree that the LRMs ain't a perfect fit, but they shouldn't be used in close range so that is not a problem. And the also have the benefit of actually fitting on the design... Two ER Large laser weight one tone more in themselves and will bloat the TC 3 more tons (since its maxed out serving 8 tons of lasers already) this means you are 4 tons and 2 slots over what the design fits, and you would also only be able to use one of them from each turn after the first because I don't run with that "dial back" rule so you would be going over the magic 9 heat if you attempt to use them both once you are already hot. If you want a long range energy weapon go with a ERPPC It actually fits with slots and is used by the standard design. 8 The only reason I didn't do it is because it would bloat the TC meaning its larger than the ECM so I will have to move the endo steel chassis structure around, and messing with chassis felt big to do from a refit standpoint. (But sure the ERPPC keep the design decidedly berserker flavored so by all mean go that route, I have done it on other berserker designs. But since you are changing internal structure it suddenly becomes the highest class "Factory" refit so It was something I shyed away from with this refit themed one) I use Skunkwork for all my designs, so that I can get them into mega mech quick and easy. As a yard stick to judge this design, put it in a combat with the bountyhunter maruader II... Just another trophy on the wall for this mech. Even with the marauder trying to keep the distance you should be able to close and destroy his day. Again this is as long as you don't fall over, don't put a green pilot behind the controls... Well I cant get your droppbox links working, otherwise I would love to see what you have come up with. Even though clan tech is cheating I have done some "Solaris mechs" that are mixed tech and one ghost bear dominion, FRR totem mech (with shield and supercharger!?!?) I have got plenty of other weird and wonderful designs, but maybe I should start including the mech file from SSW? (The only reason i didn't use the solaris txt when explaining this one is because I have the designs on the laptop.)
it really sounds like you don't need any help at all, actually honestly, i don't really mess with Jihad era stuff very much so I am not very familiar with what does or does not come stock on your BRZ C3. i am very fuzzy on most tech that came out after 3058 (the last sourcebook i bought). a lot of the newer stuff is kind of broken (TSM+CLAWS!) and i really didn't care for the Jihad era story at all. here is a different link for the Highlander if you are still curious: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hnqazn2h3hathqt/Highlander HGN-732c.html and the ubermech: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myeyos16qjfh0xs/Black Knight BL-8-KNT Pendragon.html (hopefully those links work) and yes, clan tech is total hax-tech but the latter isn't a serious build and i never use it in normal play. it is just a "what if" build. i have many reasons for leaving the energy dialing rule on: it benefits almost everyone; it helps make many canon designs less shitty (original Rifleman or Warhammer for example). TSM only helps people that use TSM and there are VERY few drawback to fitting it. Honestly, there is no reason to not fit TSM on any mech that has the free critical space (very broken if tech limitations are not set). the only true limiting factor to it is the cost and maintenance, but if you aren't accounting for that, it is very easy to abuse. the energy weapons rule is an official rule (under TacOps) and i prefer to play with almost all of the advanced rules turned on (extended ranges is another good one). after playing with standard rules for so long i got bored with them. the advanced rules generally offer a more dynamic experience. TSM is also not used in most campaigns and when it is used, it is used by the enemy for an additional challenge (like a "boss" fight). TSM is RARE equipment and energy lasers are obviously not. as a final note, if you use skunkwerks, why not post the actual readout/record sheet next time. it makes understanding whatever you are referencing WAY easier for the rest of us.
Well I would't know anything at all about what happens in most campaigns, since I have not played anyone at all. I just like rules and designing stuff, so after the old mechwarrior games I got interested in the real mechanics behind the game. So basically I have read the rule books and relatively recently designed stuff with software and preformed testing of my designs in mega meck. So when it comes to what works against real humans rather than the firendly mister test bot, I am clue less
essentially, if you fit TSM and you are facing players, they will take a very special interest in killing you as quickly as possible. outside of actual combat if you bring a lot of experimental tech, most players get annoyed by it. it is the same for anyone who exclusively uses obscure or rare items in RPGs (ie. rule lawyers and munchkins)... not accusing you of being one, just saying that is what generally happens. also, when making teams, both usually take the same amount of BV. if you are rolling in your ubermech, the rest of your team will likely be forced to use something much weaker... something most won't be happy with. from a design perspective, TSM on a medium or heavy mech is much more viable than on an assault mech. not only do you have a lot more free space to work it in, but a medium mech has a much easier time rushing, moving from cover to cover, and avoiding damage. a base speed (before buffs) of 5/8 makes a HUGE difference when trying to close into melee (6/9 with TSM active is excellent for melee). i also strongly recommend an ECM suite and switching it to ghost targets... which makes you even harder to hit (i am unsure if ECM will conflict with C3 on the same mech). basically, bigger is not always better in battletech.
I dislike experimental tech as a general rule to simply because most of it seems OP, I have used it in some designs for flavor reasons but if we exclude the previously mentioned mech with a supercharger I havent used it to gain an advantage so to speak. As a general rule i keep them tournament legal and sometimes go into advanced (basically when i want arty). I also understand the purpose and differance between BW and C-bills And I have designs built to pack a punch or do something usefull on a budget. I also that bigger is not always better in battletech, as a general rule I would say that IS designs preform there best in the medium bracket while clans can rock the heavy class, ofc clan can rock everything but its the weigh classes were i feel the different factions run the best. But due to the way XL engines, FF, endo and heat sinks work, I feel they peak at different weights Also if I remember correctly the ECM removes you from the c3 network. Don't let this mech be the only judgment on how i design things, I'l post another design on the other end of the cost spectrum (both BV and C-bills)
Checked out your build Magnus, I like the highlander. Nicely balanced design. Not to sure about the Black knight though, because its munchy with mixed tech but not balls to the wall ûber (and also hard to use TSM on without the variable energy rule)
oh yeah... the BK is munched to hell and back. like i said earlier, i've never used it. just couldn't find the IS tech version. and yes, it wasn't intended to be used without the energy dialing rule. the highlander is much more close to what i usually do.
