Official Derailed thread... Wait, what?

Terrible Writing Advice is a great channel!

 

Like everything, the katana was made into a legendary weapon by a few exceptional examples and an enormous amount of exaggeration and misunderstanding combined with popular media. It looks cool, it's exotic in both design and origin, it's got a really cool backstory and it combines both art and intimidation with an elegance that is rather rare. In the current age the techniques and methods that made it special once upon a time can be recreated or improved upon crafting just about any blade design, which limits it's advantages and disadvantages to little more than those of a curved blade versus a straight one. In the end the purpose of the weapon is more important than the blade itself, a straight blade works better in some circumstances and a curved blade in other circumstances, a very sharp blade is good sometimes, and a more robust edge is good in others.

I agree that popular culture does a horrible job of portraying the spear, there's a reason the design aside from material choice and aesthetics is virtually unchanged and remained a staple of the battlefield for thousands of years, it works, for common soldiers it's easy to train, and even the most advanced fighters would still rely upon the spear or polearm as their primary weapon until it was lost or surrendered (frequently at range, to an enemies chest). The sword is a great weapon, it makes an excellent -side- arm, which is frequently what it was, the equivalent to a pistol in relation to an assault rifle. But, the hero always uses a sword right? Swords are flashier than spear (excepting possibly in martial arts movies, but even then, more metal ) and there's also the inherent religious association thanks to the cruciform swords and the knights Templar, axes and hammers are frequently relegated to villains or savages (or dwarves, because D&D) and pretty much everything else is brought out when they need a gimmick fighter for some wow factor. Really the only place they might have it right is in the city, carrying a sword was basically the same as carrying a pistol, the guards carried rifles (polearms or spears) and everyone carried a dagger, you needed it to eat with.

 

I also don't like in media how they show armies using swords as primary weapon. Sure everyone may have had one but most armies (prior to guns) were probably more along the roman legions. Spear or other long weapon with a short sword.

 

Spears and bows are primary weapons, the sword is the basic weapon most people had if the primary weapon was no longer functional. By most is if they could afford it or was available.

 

In 19th century sources when Westerners who at the time had stuff like revolvers came into contact with Japanese it was frequently mentioned that Japanese swordsmen were very good even though they were post-samurai gekken etc. practitioners.

At the time Westerners often had metal scabbards and primarily used sabers if they had a sword - the metal scabbard and poor sharpening techniques resulted in many accounts claiming that the sabers lost their edge really quickly and they noted two things about the Japanese swordsmen:
- Japanese katana held their edge really well in comparison at that age
- The iaido way of unsheathing with a cut was extremely fast attack with surprising range

In fact a certain British officer makes a remark that their colt pistols were 'crap' and that after being loaded for a week "barely one round in five [chambers] is useful", "I very nearly lost my own life through the inefficiency of this weapon".

He also mentions that every man in Japan (Westerners) had to carry a pistol but that the Japanese invariably got the better of them even if they had the pistol in hand already.

I think there was also a mention of a Japanese guy who was shot twice in the chest before managing to still kill two men. The person in question brought the assailant in after the incident.

So yea, at the time when Westerners were largely done with their swords and would primarily prefer a revolver as a primary side arm with a rifle being the primary weapon they were impressed by Japanese who had maintained weapons that Westerners had given up and the necessary skills to maintain those weapons such as proper technique of sharpening and using appropriate scabbards. It still is a reoccurring problem that people underestimate the melee fighter in close up ranges, low caliber pistols aren't great at defending against people armed with swords or knives, you'd rather have a sword with which to parry or you'll easily end up with two dead people or even with the melee guy being last man standing.

So against this background it is no wonder that there is a healthy respect among Westerners stationed in Japan towards the swordsmen there.

Yet - it is not unique appreciation and at the very least same level of respect and appreciation was afforded to Indian swordsmen. Just, in hindsight Indians never capitalized on these commentaries and anecdotes to create a popular culture myth of Indian swords with superpowers.

In Europe and other places at certain ages sword was the primary weapon for certain types of soldiers. Romans and highlanders are some groups with especially large numbers of primarily sword wielding infantry.

Besides them in medieval Europe longswords and greatswords did see a lot of use in specialist roles. For instance swordsmen could be used to support pike formations - cutting away at the enemy spears to create openings for your own pikemen. Also they made excellent people to defend bridges, gates, walls etc. not least because a two handed sword allows you to fight against multiple opponents simultaneously. See the videos of greatswords and how they are used and it literally seems like walking into a blender to approach one.

In fact good swordsmen were so valued that among Landsknechts you would earn a double pay if you had a sword master's degree given by a sanctioned (guild) swordschool such as Marx Brothers (Marxbrüder).


TL;DR
You'd see longswords and greatswords on battlefields but the overwhelmingly most numerous type of soldier was invariably some kind of pikeman fighting as part of some kind of phalanx ever since Alexander the Great.

Eventually pike phalanxes started to adopt increasing number of muskets until gradually rifles finally made the pikes obsolete. Sword still carries on as primary weapon of certain types of cavalry with actual cavalry charges with sword being carried out until a few absolute slaughters during Great War after which cavalry ceases to exist and is converted to infantry that have access to horses for strategic transportation.

As infantry increasingly converted to pikes and muskets alone two handed swords drop out of use in battlefields in favor of lighter options. Eventually with rifles and bayonets soldiers increasingly stop carrying side swords as the rifle becomes a primary firearm and secondary spear.


Sorry. Got carried along.

 

PSA: Saints Row II is free on Steam and GOG for the next couple days.

 

Well yes, there were swordsman who used the sword as a primary weapon, sword and shield was an effective combination, but as you say the vast majority of soldiers used spear, or eventually pike as the phalanx style of combat became more commonplace. Swordsman were always valued, but there's a significant difference between a battalion of landsknechts greatsword and the average hollywood hero characterization. The sword had several advantages over the spear which is why it was valued, however it also had a much steeper learning curve, and it is more expensive to make. It was easy to lose a promising swordsman to a particularly lucky pikeman with only basic understanding of, put the pointy end into the other guy. The sword truly shined once the formations started to lose cohesion and people began fighting in small groups, which is why the swordsmen were often painted as the hero, because one guy could easily take down dozens of poorly trained pikeman... once the shieldwall was broken.

And yes, as the firearm became the primary weapon melee in general became more of a last resort, at which point the sword or bayonet became weapon of choice, the saber was far more valuable to a mounted soldier because you could use it with very little risk of the curved blade getting stuck or snagged in passing, and with the firearm went the age of armor as well, so a sharp blade was more than enough to take down the average enemy. And so the sword once more became the gentleman's weapon of choice, and the common soldier used whatever he was given, or had already, but generally rifle and bayonet.

 

barely by a few million years.

 

#endbaddoors