Combat Flight Sim (DCS, IL-2, RoF, CAP2, and a bit of WT)

The only reason I even considered was because my kids like flying stuff and I don't want them to steal the desktop. But I'm thinking it'll be a lot less fuss to just set up an older game on a laptop and hook it up to TV and my old joystick. IL-2 for instance had free flight modes where you can just fly for fun and it runs on ancient hardware and laptops.

Seems like the best deal because I don't practically need anything new and the games cost probably under 10€ now.

 

IL-2: 1946 is available on steam and it's really good. It doesn't require to much and doesn't look too bad. It probably have better flight models then WT. Don't know the price right now.

 

A summary of the June 2015 DCS World Newsletter:

• DCS World 2 is delayed
• The map "Nevada Test and Firing Range (NTTR) is in full testing but more stuff is to be implemented before open alpha. It will be avaible for free to anyone that bought the A-10C while it was in beta (prior to 21 February 2011). For the rest of us it will cost 39.99 USD.
• The Spitfire have begun internall testing. The Spitfire will be an early production Mark IXc LF with clipped wings. It's planned to be able to select the long wing version.
• Research continues on the P-47.
• The MiG-29 from FC3 will be upgraded with a high-resolution 6 DOF cockpit and a new external model.
• L-39C external model is nearing completion (the L-39ZA is further behind) as well as the Professional Flight Model (PFM).
• F/A-18C working on cockpit and air to surface radar technology

Spoiler: June 2015 DCS World Newsletter

DCS World 2 Status

Despite our best efforts over the past six months, DCS World 2 has not yet achieved the quality level and features that we require for an open alpha release. Rather than release an alpha version that is potentially a disappointment for many users, we feel it best to keep it in the oven a bit longer to bake it more thoroughly.

We fully realize that this is disappointing for some, but I can assure you that it pales in in comparison to our own. No one wishes to release our new baby out into the world more than us.

Some of the biggest remaining items that we need to address before an open alpha include:

• New multiplayer GUI system that allows multiple players in the same aircraft and multiple player aircraft in the same flight. This is critical for multi-seat aircraft like the L-39, UH-1H, Hawk, etc.
• Completing the move to use of a single executable. This will allow us to do long-desired features such as a satellite view in the Mission Editor, 3D objects in the Encyclopedia and Mission Editor, faster mission loading times, and a more stable product.
• With the move to DX11, we are continuing to find ways to increase performance. This is even more important with the coming wave of VR gear that demands extremely high framerates.
• We wish to improve several more of the effects before the open alpha. Although we have new smoke, contrails, lighting, shadow, and missile trail effects, there are more we wish to improve like better explosions and over-wing vapor.
• Lastly, there are a few remaining crash bugs we need to resolve.

So, although we have been making tremendous progress in developing DCS World 2, there are a few more items that still need to be addressed in order to meet our quality standards. We can only ask for patience because we believe that it will all be worth the wait and DCS World 2 will usher in a new chapter in the world of Digital Combat Simulator.

DCS: Nevada Test and Training Range (NTTR) Status



While much of the team has been hard at work on getting DCS World 2 ready, our map team and engineers have been busy improving the NTTR map and fixing bugs. While we have made the significant step of moving the map into full testing, there are several important areas that need to be addressed before we can release it as an open alpha to everyone. Some of these items include:

• Functional Air Traffic Control
• Ground unit road movement
• Performance improvements
• Static object issues
• TACAN and ILS
• A couple of crash situations

When the map is available as an open Alpha, our plan is to still make this map available for free to those that purchased A-10C Warthog while it was in beta (prior to 21 February 2011). It will also be available for purchase from our e-shop for $39.99 USD.

DCS WWII



The Spitfire has begun internal testing within DCS World. The Spitfire has progressed past the P-47 due to the level of info in ED's hands for the Spitfire while research continues on the P-47. The model has been added to DCS World internally and testing of the Merlin 66's performance has started; next will be the prop performance. The Spitfire version will be an early production Mark IXc LF with clipped wings. As a possible bonus, it's planned (but subject to change) to have the option to select the long wing version; however, you will lose the benefit of the clipped version and its roll rate.

MiG-29 for Flaming Cliffs 3



To round out the collection of updated aircraft for Flaming Cliffs 3, the team is working on updating the MiG-29. This will include both a new, high-resolution 6 DOF cockpit and a new external model. After the F-15C, Su-27 and Su-33 Professional Flight Models (PFM) are complete, we also plan a PFM for the MiG-29.

The MiG-29 will have the same level of cockpit systems fidelity as the other Flaming Cliffs aircraft.

This will be a free update for Flaming Cliffs 3 owners.



DCS: L-39 Albatros



The L-39C Albatros is making good progress with new cockpit systems being integrated on almost a daily basis. The new L-39C external model is also nearing completion (the L-39ZA is further behind) as well as the Professional Flight Model (PFM).



DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

Work continues on the building the Hornet cockpit and air-to-surface radar technology. Most of the recent cockpit work has involved texturing and animation of cockpit elements.

 

• New third party developer for DCS, Polychop-Simulations. They are working on the SA-342M Gazelle
• Website for the F-14A/B by Leatherneck Simulations: http://www.leatherneck-sim.com/f14/

Spoiler: MC.202 Cockpit

 

Dat spaghetti tosser is a beauty.

 

Ok so the Birds of Steel was positively a major disappointment.

There was no sense of playing any campaign, just the stupid 'dynamic bullshit campaigns' from the War Thunder, at most you can grab a mission builder but even then you can't just grab a plane without unlocking them over 1000 hours of play which is mostly things like flying against AI that shoots straight to cockpit on first encounter. 80% of the time your engine will be devastated from the first head on contact and then you're supposed to do this and that while your plane can barely stay airborne.

Realistic flight mode means that you don't see any of the gauges so you cannot know your airspeed and you can't really look down to check it either.

Also, the pad controller is fucking bullshit for trying to control the plane with any sense of realism turned on. Mere 5-10% push on the stick will instantly cause a stall and spin without any sense of warning or feedback before it. The g-settings seem ridiculous, I swear the screen blacks out for as low as 3-4g turns.

And all of the sims being shite doesn't justify buying a ps compatible joystick. It would hardly have any impact on the experience, after all.


So now I'm just grabbing my desktop at the end of workday and hauling it downstairs, if it sounds like a jet engine then it just adds to the immersion ffs! Mrs Sheep is loving having a jet engine in the carefully decorated living room too. Says it sounds like the real deal.

 

You can pretty much say that Birds of Steel was the test version for WT. WT was first announced on 1 April 2011 as World of Planes. On 24th January 2012
they announced the change of name to War Thunder. Birds of Steel (created by Gaijin) was released on March 13, 2012 and the games are identical. It almost feels like they released it because they needed money.

When it comes to flight sims, PC is the best choice if not the only. Here is a list of all the games i know about.

War Thunder (WT) by Gajin https://warthunder.com/en
IL-2: 1946
Rise of Flight (RoF) by 777 Studios http://riseofflight.com/
IL-2: Cliffs of Dover (IL-2:CoD). Only really good with the Team Fusion mods
IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad/Battle of Moscow (IL-2: BoS/BoM) by 1C Game Studios, 777 Studios http://il2sturmovik.com/
Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) by Eagle Dynamics http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

Microsoft Flight Simulator X (FSX)
X-Plane (X-P) by Laminar Research http://www.x-plane.com/desktop/home/

2 other flight sims that are not as well know are:

Redbird Jay (Jay) by Redbird Flight Simulations http://simulators.redbirdflight.com/
Prepar3d (P3D) by Lockheed Martin http://www.prepar3d.com/

 

That's a great list and I appreciate it. Do you know a game called European Air War? It would still be possibly my favorite if it weren't so horribly outdated. There was limited element of dynamism to campaigns, you could either be a regular pilot or even command your own squadron and worry about munitions and planes.

Also thought that the Combat Flight Simulator 2 (pacific one) was ok - after modifying the code: they had inserted a line to the code which disabled the initiative of your wingmen because someone at Microsoft decided that the player should carry 95% of the mission objectives alone. So you had things like being asked to take out 10 landing craft and you had 2 bombs on your plane while 15 wingmen just fly in a circle and do not engage, unless you knew of the code and changed it.

Are there any like those games?

I always thought that the initial IL-2 games were plagued by insanely god-like enemy pilots, insanely accurate flak and overly accurate bomber gunners. I remember when I tried to play the Forgotten Battles expansion and I would lose a whole year's worth of planes on a single mission flying against the russians.

In short, IL-2 games seemed like too difficult and not really fun when everything within the battlefield can hit anything with deadly accuracy which is not historically accurate and is not fun to play.

And the online ones seem to be focused around grind. While grind seems to be The Way of Games these days I'd just like to carry old school campaigns where your success may even have impact on the war or at least on your squadron etc.

What I especially don't appreciate is 'game rule patriotism' where you change game rules etc. to favor a specific country.

 

I know nothing about European Air War or any of the Combat Flight Simulator games

In IL-2 bombers will mess you up if you sit behind them but with proper tactics there is not much they can do. Flak is abit more random but if you keep your speed up, change direction and altitude you should be allright.

War Thunder is the only grind game. IL-2: BoS have abit of it aswell but nowhere near WT. For RoF, IL-2: BoS and DCS all you need is to have bought the plane.

RoF have a career mode, you choose a squadron. Then you fly missions until you either die or the war ends. It also have some shorter campaigns aswell
DCS have campaigns for their planes aswell.
The IL-2: BoS campaign is just a series of randomised missions but more scripted missions are in the work.
IL-2: CoD, know very little about it.

All of these games are trying to be as realistic as possible.

 

European Air War was the shit back in the day. It also had an advertisement in the main menu saying "now in full 256 colors!"




Imho, IL-2 had overly accurate gunners and I'm familiar with all the attack strategies on bombers, practiced them all long before anyone was even planning to work on IL-2. That said, imho the gunners are overly precise for things like when you descend upon the bombers from sky at high velocities and difficult angles. All the time getting hits from insane guns like Pe-8 30mm cannon etc. from angles that I could never hit with mouse sitting in the gun turret, it doesn't make the shot any easier that the gun has insanely low rate of fire. Yet it was fairly common iirc to get hit by it even when pulling decent evasive patterns.

If I recall correctly the IL-2 npc precision was noted elsewhere when it first came out.

In general, I'm very cautious when you mention IL-2 BoS having 'a little' grind. Is that like "you only need to play 100+ hours to unlock half the planes"?

Seems like you've got me pretty much sold on the DCS and RoF. I just hope neither will be too much of the getting prepped, spend 30 minutes on stuff and then the first enemy you see hits you in the cockpit (30%) or wrecks your engine (60%). Sometimes you even get to start a battle and the npc's never seem to hit each other like that.

I don't know if I really suck as a pilot but I wouldn't mind being above average when playing against AI. It just isn't fun when after years of experience of flight sims I'm at a level where the worst pilot of AI squadron will evade me perfectly and know I'm coming even when I'm coming from outside his field of view and when the average ones have incredible accuracy on head-ons.

At least with DCS I suppose it's got a lot of missile action and modern air combat so it probably doesn't have a lot of that head-on with cannons type of stuff. It just costs a lot so I'll have to wait a bit but that's probably what I'm going to get.

:edit:

I was looking at DCS and I noticed complaints that made it seem like even more lacking in campaigns than IL-2 series and with campaigns more or less being kind of random missions clamped together.

I'm going to look at RoF with higher interest. Otherwise I'd be more interested in modern stuff but I'm not really interested if it's like IL-2 or WT where they have the philosophy that they just build an engine and core mechanics and "that's it".

(also looking at my posts I seem to be highly specific and needy but those past flight sims were just a lot of fun and had campaigns that had effects on the progress etc., which seem like dinosaurs in the era of "here's mechanic, go play against humans" and "grind grind grind!".

:edit2:
The tone of my posts is partly because I'm really tired after a really long day.

 

For IL-2: BoS, this is what it looks like.

I have Premium Edition so i started with everything unlocked. At about 600xp you would unlock the IL-2. You make about 50-150 xp per mission and one mission lasts about 10-20 min. The unlocks above are bombs, rockets, different skins. With the LaGG-3 the first unlock is the 23mm cannon followed by 2 skins then 50kg bombs and so on. Overall you make it through it fairly quickly, i have just played very little

Both DCS and RoF have a free version, You can find both on steam. RoF is very fast to get started in. DCS is, well depends on plane. Some are fairly fast and easy to start with then you have stuff like the A-10C.

The ai in RoF is ok. The AI in DCS is good. It will do manouvers and all.

Now for the topic of missions and campaigns. Modern sims are more of sandbox games. They rely alot on user created missions and campaigns. Most of them come with some form of campaign but usually thats just a series of missions. Multiplayer have become the main focus. There are alot of groups that do it well with scenarios and missions.
Campaign wise, RoF is probably the best one you will find.

Your tone is fine also everyone in this genre is rather specific with what they want and so i am here trying to help you find it.

 

And I really appreciate it! Not only have you saved me a ton of money but also a lot of precious time and spared me many a frustration with your help. Thank you!

As a sidenote, I just can't fathom the design meeting where they came up with "hey, whether you plane has a cannon on the nose or not depends on your account xp and not from what you squadron is issued and fitted with on a given date".

Nevermind that. At least it's an opening to be exploited. Since I'm so low on costs I don't need a big audience and I'm really thinking hard about it - if someone doesn't make a decent sim with good campaigns in the few years to come .. that there's an opportunity and I love the genre.

Stuff like Battle of Britain, you'd bomb the hell out of an air field and the next time you got back the RAF would have less fighters etc. Or vice versa, fighting with RAF you saw that if the Luftwaffe knocked out Rolls Royce factory it meant that you'd receive less spitfires for reinforcements. Losing planes meant that you had less to go with but also shooting down the enemy faster than they could replace themselves meant less planes on their side. And then there were these historic orders such as german order to have twice as many fighters as there were bombers on each flight which actually made it more annoying for german commander to send in planes as the pilots were receiving less rest etc.

But this is the mobile age of gaming and everything is DLC, addon and xp-locked even after purchase. And "go create your own metagame". It's just not as much fun having the mission builder open, set 11 planes on my side and 9 on the enemy side, keeping track of the downed pilot's and their skills etc..


RoF is also interesting as it's quite exotic to me since it's been a really long time since I played WW1 flight sim last time. When I did the 3D was made with sprites instead of polygons!

 

Since you dont choose squadron its more of a, you pick what you need for the mission.
The LaGG-3 comes with a 20mm which you will use most of the time.

The unlocks are mostly just switching what bombs and guns you are using. You basically get a plane as it was when it left the factory.

All unlocks under a spoiler. They are in the order you unlock them.

Spoiler: Unlocks

LaGG-3: 23mm VYa-23, 2 x FAB-50sv, 6 x ROS-82, 2 x FAB-100M, 37mm Sh-37
IL-2: 2 x 23mm VYa-23, 2 x FAB-250sv, Rear Turret, 2 x 37mm Sh-37, 8 x RBS-82 / ROFS-132
Yak-1: 2 x ROS-82, 2 x FAB-50sv, 6 x ROS-82, 2 x FAB-100M, RPK-10
Pe-2: 10 x FAB-100M, 4 x FAB-250sv, 2 x FAB-500M, 10 x ROS-132, Blister Turret
La-5: 2 x FAB-50sv, 2 x FAB-100M, RPK-10, Flat Windscreen, Special Guns Ammo Load

Bf 109 F-4: Remove Headrest, 4 x SC 50, Armoured Wind Screen, 1 x SC 250, 2 x 15mm MG 151/15 Gun Pods, 2 x 20mm MG 151/20 Gun pods
Ju 87 D-3: Siren, 1 x SC 1800, Additional Armour Plates, Machine gun pods, 2 x 37mm 3.7 cm BK gun pods,
Bf 109 G-2: 4 x SC 50, Remove Headrest, 1 x SC 250, Armoured Glass Headrest, 2 x 20mm MG 151/20 gun pods
He 111 H-6: Belly 20mm gun turret, Nose 20mm gun turret, 1 x SC 1000, 1 x SC 1800, 1 x SC 2500
Fw 190 A-3: 4 x SC 50, 1 x SC 250, 1 x SC 500, 2 x 20mm MG FF/M 120 rounds, 2 x 20mm MG FF/M 180 rounds

This sounds great but most flight sim developers wont be able to do anything like this since they lack both the time and money required. Also because multiplayer is the main part these days.

I don't mind the DLC bit of flight sims. They need to put so much work in these planes that its almost its own game.

They have quick missions which might be what you are talking about. You can set planes on both sides and locations. There is also a full mission editor for more advanced stuff. DCS, IL-2 and RoF all have these

Go try it. You can download it for free from their website or steam.

 

Yea, I've been talking to some pro AAA devs lately and they were saying things like 5000$ per month after taxes was "bad salary" and "making sacrifices". With that kind of attitudes and self entitlement and having things like well staffed marketing departments, I don't wonder one bit that people can't afford to make games!

If just I got 5k after taxes, that would like multiply our budget by 7 or so.

Also, companies that are run by investors are often poor at reinvesting.

I'm just wondering about things like, were the salaries *that* much lower 10 years ago that these things were possible then and absolutely impossible these days.. or is it just corporate PR "well, you see, no more ice cream because it's impossible but if you pay extra you'll get milk". Just some thoughts, I'm not fully buying into all of what the corporate execs try to say and "educate" gamers.

Going to try out RoF once I get better. I can barely sit as it is.

 

I believe it's because things have become more advanced. Most of these companies are trying to make things as realistic as possible and that takes alot of work. The old models (external, flight, damage) are rather simple if we compare to the ones used today. These games dont have that large of a playerbase either. This might explain a little bit as to why things are the way they are. The only ones who truly know are the devs

 

DCS: L-39 Albatros is avaible for pre-purchase
The beta version of DCS: L-39 will be available in September 2015

DCS: L-39 will sell for $49.99 at September 2015. Pre-purchase now for $39.99 and save 20%!



The L-39 Albatros is a low-wing, high-performance jet aircraft that doubles as a trainer and light attack aircraft. The Albatros was developed in Czechoslovakia in the 1960s to replace older L-29 jet trainers. Powered by an Ivchenko AI-25TL turbofan engine, the L-39 has a top speed of Mach 0.80, a service ceiling of 11,000 m (36,100 feet), and can pull up to 8 G. Although primarily used as a trainer and light attack aircraft, the L-39 has also become popular with several aerial acrobatics demonstration teams.

Being a trainer aircraft, the L-39C has a tandem cockpit with the student in front and the instructor in the back. The instructor has several controls to mimic system failures to test the student. The L-39C also has two underwing pylons for bombs, rockets and close range air-to- air missiles. For decades, the L-39 was used by nations around the world to train pilots that later went on to fly aircraft like the MiG-29 and Su-27.

Key Features of the DCS: L-39 Albatros:

• Professional Flight Model that accurately mimics the performance and flight characteristics of this legendary trainer
• Highly detailed, six-degrees-of-freedom (6 DOF) cockpit
• Interact with cockpit controls with your mouse
• Fully modelled weapon system
• Accurate L-39C model with correct country markings
• Detailed modelling of the L-39 instruments, weapons, engine, radios, fuel, electrical and hydraulic systems
• Fly from either the front seat or back seat
• Planned cooperative multiplayer in the same aircraft (not available at release)
• Two versions of aircraft: L-39C, that will be available in the initial beta and L-39ZA that will be later

 

I'm bored at work so here is a list of all planes that have been released or are being worked on for dcs.

Released:
Ka-50
A-10C
Su-25T
A-10A
F-15C
Su-27
Su-33
MiG-29A
MiG-29
Su-25
Mi-8MTV2
UH-1H
P-51D
Bf 109 K-4
FW 190 D-9
MiG-21bis
MiG-15bis
F-86F
Combined Arms
C-101 Aviojet (beta)
T.1A Hawk (beta)

In development:
L-39C (pre - purchase)
F-14A/B
F-18C
P-47D-30
Spitfire Mk IX
F8F Bearcat
F4F Wildcat
P-40F (pre - purchase)
Eurofighter Typhoon
SA-342M Gazelle
Mirage 2000C
Dehavilland Vampire FB5
Gloster Meteor F3

Future projects:
A7 Corsair II (after Mirage 2000C)
Possibly Mirage F1 after C-101 is finished.

Spoiler: VEAO roadmap

DCS Air Force Training Pack
BAE Hawk T.1A – October 2014 Released
Short Tucano
Grob G115E Tutor
Pilatus Pc21

DCS Warbirds Collection
Curtiss P-40F - September 2015 *
Grumman F8F Bearcat – Q4 2015 *
Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV – Q4 2015 *
HA-1112 Buchon - Q4 2015 *
Hawker Typhoon
Grumman Wildcat - Q4 2015
Dehaviland Mosquito Mk IV
Dehaviland Mosquito Mk XVI
Messerchmitt Me109T
Supermarine Seafire 17
Hawker Sea Hurricane
Hawker Sea Hawk
Curtiss Hawk 75
Curtiss P-40C
Focke Wulf FW190A-8 / F-8
Messerschmitt Bf109-E4
North American A-36 Apache

DCS Royal Air Force Battle of Britain Memorial Flight (RAFBBMF)
We are currently in discussion with them to develop the pack and an announcement will be made soon.
Avro Lancaster
Douglas C-47 Dakota
Hawker Hurricane MkI
Hawker Hurricane MkIIb
Various Supermarine Spitfire’s in their collection

DCS Jets
Eurofighter Typhoon – 2015 *
Airbus A330 MRTT Refueller – Included with the Typhoon as AI then developed ASM/EFM after to be sold separately.
SAAB JAS Gripen
Dassault Rafale
Hunter Hawker
Dehaviland Venom
Dehaviland Vampire
Panavia Tornado GR1
Hawker Siddley FAS1 SeaHarrier
Gloster Meteor
English Electric Lightning

Map Areas
Duxford (test development map)
North Africa – Tubruq
Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys
Falkland Islands

I believe that is all but I might have missed something.

 

Any idea if they have any of that 'country bias' many sim makers get accused of?

Then again, I doubt a lot of people actually know about how many of those play out in real situations - of course talking of the very latest craft etc., like modern ECM and modern missiles and all.

I very much doubt that things such as maneuvers that combine the tracked signature of one plane to another and transfer it to the second plane that has a better evasion vector would work

There was that one sim some years ago that modeled iirc. F-18's radar too precisely and they got official complaints for it for comrpomising military secrets and they had to dumb it down.

 

The devs of DCS usually have a contract that says what they can do.

For example VEAO is doing the Eurofighter Typhoon. They have an official contract where they are doing a full trainer for the air force.

The version we will receive for dcs will not have all the systems the real plane have but for most of us we won't be able to tell what is lacking.

The same applies to any other module.

I have rarely seen any talk about country bias in any proper sim game.
They try to be as real as possible.

 

So the bias is usually on the more arcadey games I suppose. Nice to know.

RoF first and DCS itself also looks really nice but, just, I'd need a ton more time for DCS I think. Probably want to get them both eventually.